Jonathan Carone: Are Your Kid’s Sports Really About Them?

Surviving Youth Sports: Okay, let's go Welcome to Surviving Youth Sports Podcast, where we dive into real stories behind the wins, the losses, and the lessons that come with raising, coaching, and being young athletes. Now let's get into it. Rhett Parker: Hi, and welcome to another episode of Surviving Youth Sports. And today we have Jonathan Carone from Healthy Sports Parents Motivation for Us to Start This Podcast. Welcome to the show, Jonathan. Jonathan: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Still we told me before we started recording, but it's still weird to hear, but I love it. Rhett Parker: Yeah and and and I think I think you know it it's it's it's different because you're just you're on top of all these topics that we see all the time and and you're giving your take and and and you know we draw from a lot of experiences, you, myself, other people, and I love it, man. And and people just need information to make decisions. And whether we agree with those decisions or not is is irrelevant, right? Jonathan: Well, I started this with the core principle and I still have it. Most parents want to do better. They've just never been taught how. So everything I do is within with that frame of mind. Like n when we sign our our kids up for T ball, no one says no one gives us a a guidebook to say, Hey Here are all the things you're gonna feel over the next 10 years of this journey that are gonna make you go crazy in the YMCA at 8:30 on a Saturday morning with a seven-year-old playing basketball. It's just we get these feelings inside of us that pop up and no one has a clue what, like, unless you've studied it or you like you don't know why you're feeling this way. It's just these weird feelings start popping up and we start doing things that nowhere else in our life would we we'd be like, you know what? I'm gonna go yell at a child today. That sounds like something that a grown adult should be doing, but somehow sports happening and it's like, yeah, I'm gonna go yell at another adult because I disagree with them. Like because just because they're the umpire of the referee. Like, no, you're not gonna yell at like the kid in the grocery store. You're gonna be like, hey, you messed up. Like you you might have a conversation with them, but you're not gonna yell at them or insult them or call them names. Like, what are we doing? Rhett Parker: Yeah. Or Yeah. There you go. I I wholeheartedly agree. Cause if a lot of people did what they did at these games at their job, they'd be fired. Instantly. Jonathan: Yes. And if we're candid, if someone videotaped what a lot of these people do at games and showed their bosses, they still might get fired. Rhett Parker: That just happened in Mississippi. there was a sheriff who just beat the hell out of some umpire fired. Jonathan: Did it really? Sh is he in jail? it's assault. Sh he should be. Rhett Parker: I think they're pr yeah, a hundred percent. I think they're they they're they are. I didn't get that far in in the article, but I think they are pressing charges against the guy. I w so and I also think like, you know, I I didn't go through the travel ball when I played. And I still think we're in this mode of like I I don't know how to act because I didn't go through it. And man, I I also feel like Jonathan: Good. Rhett Parker: There's that part of it and then there's the if my kid's not good, I'm a bad parent. The ego part. How much are how much of that are you feeling like is out there? Yeah, absolutely. Let's go. Jonathan: You wanna drill into that? Okay. So let's have a little lesson here. We ha as human beings, deep down inside of us, we have two desires, two core desires that go back to the cavemen. They are a hundred percent human. There's no judgment in these. So like anyone listening, please listen. There's no judgment in what I'm about to say. These are human desires. They're called self love and self glory. We want others to like us. We want others to think we're good at what we're doing. And it is a protection mechanism. Because when we were cavemen, we wanted the other people in our little caveman community to think we were worth protecting when the cavemen from the other cul-de-sac comes over the hill and want to kill all of us. And so it's a survival mechanism to have others like us and to think we are valuable. Okay. So human nature, we all crave that. Whether you say, I don't care what other people think about me, bullcrap, yes, you do. It's it's a human desire. So let's go to sports. Rhett Parker: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jonathan: Because we don't realize this desire is so deep inside of us, and because we don't realize it impacts so much of what we do, we inadvertently think other parents will like us more if our kid is a good athlete. We inadvertently think other parents will think we're doing a good job if our kid performs well on the field. And the example I'll give you, you've seen this. Your kid goes up, goes three for four, hits a homer, steals a base, throws a kid out at home. Someone comes up to you after the game and congratulates you on a good game that your kid played. They say, Rhett, good hey, good game today. Like you did jack crap out there on the field. It's you it's your kid, but that feels good inside of you. So what happens is that there's that dopamine rush of, ooh, ooh, I like the way I feel. So the next time your kid goes out and strikes out three times. Rhett Parker: Yeah. Yeah. Jonathan: Or hits the ball hard and it just happens to be at somebody, no one comes up to you and says, Rhett, great game today. So your natural insecurities start thinking, do they like me as much as they used to? Do they think I'm doing as good of a job parenting as they did last week when my kid performed better? And so then it's like, well, I need to get them in another camp. I need to get them hitting lessons. I need to get them because if I do all the things, then the parents will look at me like I'm doing a good job. Rhett Parker: Yeah. It's weird. Mm-hmm. Yeah. my gosh. Jonathan: So I I like to say it's not even ego, it's insecurities we don't recognize are there. Rhett Parker: Man, so I took a two parts to that. One and and I I was I want my kid to be successful because I I like them to be confident and it's more fun for them when they're more successful. It is a hundred percent. I I would I would say so as at a as at a game the other night and my oldest kid is not hitting very well and Jonathan: More fun for you too. It's it's easier for you as well. Rhett Parker: I that didn't bother me as much as he's not having any fun when he's going to the plate. Like I watched the body language and I'm like, so dude, you're you're like you're trying so hard to be good instead of going up there and being like, okay, here's my checkpoints. I'm gonna go have some fun. I'm gonna I'm I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna go I'm gonna go try my best. And I think for me, that bothered me way more than when he struck out. And he and he got a hit. I was like, God, it's on first and he's I'm like, dude, are you having fun hitting? He's like, I don't know, not really. I was like, you could have went four for four. I'd probably say the same thing. Like, what's going on? And he's like, too many people are telling me what telling me how to hit and what to hit. He doesn't have the best hitting mechanics in the world, I'll tell you that. He's got good hand eye and he can really run. And and I'm like, hey bud, just go have fun. Yes, like go have fun. Like Jonathan: Seaball, hit ball. Have fun. Rhett Parker: The more you could have a ton of success. And I I'm in the stands like, man, like, and and I don't coach the all-stars, which is great for me. I I I I kinda I love being in the stands and not having to worry about playing time and all this other stuff. But it it it bugged me, and then and then all of a sudden, whoa, we we gotta go hit more. No, he actually probably needs to hit less right now, not more. Yes. Yep. Jonathan: He needs go to pool. He's to go he needs to go swimming. He needs to go to the amusement park to There you go. Like that's what he needs more than anything. He doesn't need to go hit. Get him out like get him away from it. Rhett Parker: they just went to the zoo today, Jonathan. A hundred percent. No. Yes, a hundred percent. Like we're not picking a ball up today and yeah, it's gonna be great. Jonathan: Like I j I just interviewed Dr. Joey Case for a bonus episode this summer. he is the assistant mental performance director for the Marlins. And he used to be at Mississippi State as o over their entire athletic department mental health-wise. He told me he wouldn't tell me who it was, but it's a guy who's currently in the NFL, was thinking about quitting when he was at Mississippi State because and they drilled into it and it just got to be too much for him. So what they ended up doing, he had a homework assignment to go Get away from football for an hour every single week. So he picked up photography and really got into photography. And he was like that was part of his training regimen was to get away from football for an hour a week to go dig into photography, whether it's a class, whether it's just taking pictures, but it had to be something away from football because the schedule of football was making him not love the sport. And now he's in the NFL. Rhett Parker: Love And and obviously for parents and coaches hearing this, more is not always Jonathan: It's the law of diminishing returns. Rhett Parker: Yes. Yes. Like some people I will I will say this. I play Yeah. Yeah. Jonathan: But let hand and can I interrupt you? But more's what we can control. As parents, we can't control like if our kid's not performing, we feel it's our job. We want the kid to like us. We want the kid to think we're doing a good job as a parent, too. So the controllable piece of this is well, he's not hitting. I need to go get him lessons. I need to take him to the cage. I need to throw more. I need to more, more, more, more, more. Because that feels like something we can control. It's a lot harder to say, no. We're gonna we're gonna trust the process. We're gonna trust what all of the data tells us. We're gonna trust what all the past coaches tell us and what the experts in the field say of your kid needs a break sometimes. Your kid needs to have fun doing this. Once they like this has been studied as well. Like when the fun goes away, performance usually follows not too far behind. And then the number one reason kids quit is because it's not being fun. That doesn't mean we can't work hard. We can have all the Rhett Parker: Yep. A hundred percent. Jonathan: all the fun in the world working hard. And the fun changes as they get older. But it's a lot easier to go do stuff than it is to pull back and let the process work itself out. Rhett Parker: And the fun changes. I I I I I can tell you that when you live in a training room and with an athletic trainer because you're hurt all the time, it's a different kind of fun. And mentally it's very different. And by the way, like we should be encouraging, I this all the time, fans of the sport. Jonathan: Yes. Rhett Parker: when they're young to build in that passion for the sport so they enjoy playing the sport. And when it gets more serious, if you're a really good athlete, you will do more. It it it it it is Jonathan: Right. Because it gets f hitting like I interviewed Jake Civicki about this. We were the our entire episode was about this. When you hit that double to score the run in the bottom of the seventh in high school baseball, man, that's fun. And you want to do whatever you can to do that again. And so maybe that is you need to go train before school and lift some weights. Maybe that is like so the stuff that used to feel like too much is now like, no. I want I want the this is fun for me. So I'm going to put the work in to be really good because I had a taste of what success can be. But even then, like you just said, there is a balance so that you don't end up being best friends with the athletic trainer. Rhett Parker: Correct. And my wife and I were were best friends with a lot of trainers and physical therapists. I think we we we we helped some people's kids get through get through college, man. but interesting segment. I I keep going back to this kid be because it's really relevant because he he just got sent down again yesterday. Kid was like my little brother. He's gone up and down in the big leagues this year. And and and the two Jonathan: Yeah. Yeah. Rhett Parker: Sorry, the three starts that he's had in the big leagues that have been his most successful, one day's notice, comes or I get come out of the bullpen through five scroll withinnings, didn't know he was gonna do it, and then a scratch start and he moved up. His other four starts, he hasn't done as good when he knows he's starting and setting it up. And so even when you get to the 100%, 100%. Jonathan: I guarantee you is overthinking it. Like w I we have I I work with my high school baseball team and we have a kid here who just finished up his junior year in college. But he was all like conference player of the year three years in a row in high school. Played pitched, played outfield, did did all this stuff. His senior year, we didn't start him at all until the playoffs because We our head coach learned when he has too much time to think about it, he doesn't do well. So we had this ace pitcher playing center field who would come in in the fourth or fifth inning on Tuesday night and Friday night throughout the entire year. He'd throw two or three innings here and two or three innings here. He never knew when he was gonna go in. He just, hey Caden, go get warm. And he'd get warm, he'd come in, throw the piss out of the ball, and then boom. And then he go he goes to he went to Western Carolina. Rhett Parker: Yep. Yes. Yes. Boom. Yep. Okay. Jonathan: You got Tommy John, his freshman year. the joke is he's the only person ever beat Tommy John because he came like he worked so hard to get past it that he came back early. But he also came back throwing, he's now up to like 96, 97. And because of his academic work, he graduated in three years. He's going to Duke next year, dude. Like he's coming, he's gonna come out of the bullpen, throwing 97 miles an hour and getting a Duke master's degree. But you start him. Rhett Parker: Good for him. Is he? Love it. Yeah. Love love it. Jonathan: Not the best thing in the world. And this is a smart kid who like is yeah. He I sat one day, he was home a year and a half ago or something like that, maybe in Christmas break. he was talking to our top pitcher that year who was going finished up his senior year, and they're they're just talking pitching. And he's so smart, he overanalyzes everything, which is why when he starts Rhett Parker: It's common too, Jonathan. It's common. Mm-hmm. Jonathan: He doesn't do as well because he gets in his head overthinking it when he comes out of the bullpen, like, hey, we need you to get three outs. Let me just come in and throw gas, break off a slider here and there, mix in a changeup, and then we'll we'll go home. I'll get my inning in and I'll come back and do it tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. Rhett Parker: It's over. Done. Game's over. It's great. I it's really common too, Jonathan. It it it really it really is common. It football k Jonathan: It's why the mental side of sports is the most untapped skill we have. And it's why, like again, the I mentioned Dr. Case a minute ago. It's why these all these pro teams have entire mental health departments now, because their job, like Dr. Case said, he's working with guys in the minors more than he is the majors right now. Because they want to get their heads right as part of their player development so that when they get to the big leagues, it's not your little brother here. And Rhett Parker: Yeah. A hundred percent. And and God, he's I he's not even doing that bad, but again, this is a guy who's twenty two R right. Like this. But but he's twenty two. Like he's twenty two years old. Like he's gonna be fine. He does and and and you know, he's never failed a lot because guys like that don't fail a lot, whereas they're moving up, they're just better than everybody. And you you said something interesting. Forever. Jonathan: They've done the work and can get past it. But not bad in the majors. The margin for error. He's got time. No. He's been the b he's been the best kid on his team. Like he's never yeah. Rhett Parker: Well, he played it. You know what you what? I'll I'll give his dad's one of my best friends and business partners and he's he played up, so he wasn't the best a lot. A lot. So he did fail when he was younger, but even when he was playing up, he's still one of the he's still one of the best players. but Jonathan: Okay. Good for him. Right. When your arm is gif kissed by God, it is what it is. Rhett Parker: Yeah. absolutely. You brought something up. There's a reason they call there's a reason they call the timeouts i in football to ice the kickers, man. If they don't call those timeouts, half those kicks they miss after the timeout, that those kickers make. Because they're just I I wanna get out there and it 'cause I don't know what I'm thinking about. I'm gonna make it. It it's you know, it it's tough. Jonathan: Yeah. But it it's why in in baseball when a when a pitcher is in a groove, we tell the batter to step out. You gotta br like you gotta break the rhythm. Like it it's why we ice free throw shooters in basketball. It's why like I mean, Leo Messi missed a penalty kick the other day, for God's sake. He's the best player to ever live. Like, but i if you if you watch it, and there's debate that he missed it on purpose because he didn't blah blah blah. But if you watch it, he tried to do too much. Rhett Parker: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I saw I saw that. I saw it. Yeah. Right. Jonathan: From from my amateur perspective. He thought the keeper was going to do one thing, tried to bait him, the keeper didn't, and then he kind of just discombobulated and hooked it. It's a normal, it's a natural thing. Like when when your brain doesn't go or something doesn't happen, it's like our brains are so freaking powerful that they do things to us all the time. Like as someone who deals with my own sets of anxieties as a human, like I'm laying in bed at night going through problems that I know don't exist, but I can't turn my brain off. Rhett Parker: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Jonathan: Now you add in thousands of people watching you perform and yeah, this is a lot harder than we give it credit for. Rhett Parker: Absolutely. I y you know what? Actually I'm I'm gonna go two parts because I I would love to hear your take on this and and and watch one of your clips because this just came out today. I saw this. I think social media is a big problem. It's a big problem for the pro athletes, it's big problem for youth athletes, you know, but the gamble the yeah, a hundred percent the gambling part, I I mean, I made the mistake, you know, 'cause I have multiple kids I've coached in the big leagues that that I still I made the mistake one time, this is a few years ago of of like Jonathan: Yeah. It's a big problem for humanity. Rhett Parker: I'm just gonna look to see how he did. And the gamblers are, I mean, saying vile things to to to this big league kid. This is probably four years ago. And today I just saw it. There's one of the gambling companies that's like, they're gonna go after people and ban them from gambling that start trolling athletes online. I don't know how that I don't know how they I mean AI. A AI and different I mean, I'm sure there's ways to do it, but like Jonathan: As they should. I don't know how they're gonna force that. IP tracking and stuff like that. Which Rhett Parker: God, wouldn't that I mean, man, that'd be a blessing for everybody. Jonathan: Then you can't God, there's so many things here. There's the data privacy piece of this. Like, do we really want companies having access to that much of our data that they can track? Like that the gambling company can track what we're posting online? Like just like ethically, I agree that you shouldn't be saying those things. But from a data privacy standpoint, I'm like, I don't know if I want my like I don't want well, but I don't want them to have the the ability to. Rhett Parker: Yeah. Mm. Okay. How yes. Okay. Well then don't say anything. Then don't say it. Right, right, Jonathan: Even even if I'm not gonna do anything, I don't gamble on the on the first place. Rhett Parker: right. Yeah, yeah. Jonathan: I have super addictive personality. I haven't even I've never placed a sports bet because I know myself and would not be a good thing for me to do. But no, I mean gambling has compl legalized gambling on our phones. Let me let me let me change that. Like having access to the to the casino anywhere we go is that's that's the issue here. Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Jonathan: Like we're seeing it in c the the thing with Texas Tech Kid, we're seeing it in college. It's it's going to be one of the crisis crises of our time is finding the balance of like we can we can get into the ethics of leak should it be legal, should it not be legal. There's all sorts of opinions there. But what's undeniable is the addictive nature to it when you combine sports betting with cell phones. Rhett Parker: Sad. And social media, 'cause it's in your face all the time. Like I I I I so to s Jonathan: Yes. Yep. Like I I I'll I'll say this just like just while we're on the topic. Sports betting exposes this hypocrisy of our culture because we will take millions of dollars in ad money from we being like big corporate medias or whatever from and leagues as well from betting companies, but then we shame and degrade anyone who actually uses those services if they're a part of our organization. We'll take the money. Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. Jonathan: But you can't use the product. Rhett Parker: Yep. It's wild. It's wild. It's wild. And I mean the hypocrisy is, you know, we care about student athletes. I I I mean, come on, man. Like that's crazy. Jonathan: But it's also it it it is trickling down to to get us back on topic to youth, to youth sports. Like there have been stories of Pop Warner peewee football games where parents were betting on outcomes. And like we're view we b we have started viewing these games through the lens of betting. Not everybody, but too many. Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. God, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. And and you know, I I I as we're talking about social media, as we're talking about betting and parents' views and the view of you sports. And and I'm not saying this is this is black and white, but I I try to draw from my own experiences, right? Good or bad. Same with my wife. I man We're we're into it because our kids are into it. But man, we we played, bro. Like we played in front of lot of people. I don't care if they play in college. I don't care if they're I don't even care if they play in high school. Do you feel like you've talked to way more people than I have? a lot of people that played don't have some of the same problems that other people have. Is that true or not? I mean, is it it's not black and white. Jonathan: I I will Rhett Parker: But what's your take on that? Jonathan: It's not black and white, but I would say the overwhelming majority of people who have been there, they both understand what it takes to get there and they also realize that it's not all it's cracked out to be. Rhett Parker: Ding my ding, my trust me, my hip and knee would a hundred percent agree with you, my friend. Like Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jonathan: Ha ha That it's a great accomplishment and it's it's cool and you get to do some really cool things. Having college paid for is a great asset. But I interviewed a friend of mine, her name's Dr. Jenna Wallace, she's a child psychologist, she played Division I softball. She told me that that interview that we did was the first time anyone had ever mentioned the fact that she played college softball in the last 10 years. It has nothing to do with her current life today. And she's married to a guy who works for a division one. program now. Like they're around college athletics all the time. They both were Division I athletes, but it has no impact on who she is as a person in life now. And she didn't have a great experience. Her husband had a little better experience than she did, but her experience playing D one softball was not great. And she like she would she would say that there were traumatic moments of her career based off of situations and things the coaching staffs did. And so like when you've been through that, are you really going to force this on your kid? Are you going to say, no, like I want my kid to love this sport? I want them to, I want them to have these great experiences because looking back, some of my greatest experiences were playing 12 U All Stars. We're playing for my high school team. We're for we're playing the sport I didn't even go to college in, but ended up loving. Tell me if I'm wrong, Rip. Rhett Parker: Yes. Jonathan: Baseball's your best sport, correct? Rhett Parker: I mean, if I'm being on if football is probably my best sport, but I didn't love it. Jonathan: Okay. Which one did you go the furthest in? Okay. Is baseball the one you enjoyed the most? Okay. What happens a lot of times is what you love the most isn't what you're the best at. You just said football was what you were best at, but you didn't love it enough to go to the higher levels. The love of baseball allowed you to. Rhett Parker: Baseball. Yep. Yes. Mm mm. Jonathan: Get over the quote unquote deficiencies because you loved it so much. So that's one side of this coin. There's also the side that someone's really great in a sport. They don't necessarily love it. They're okay at another sport, but they love it. They end up doing the sport that they're best at because it can take them further. And it becomes just a means to an end. And When that person gets to the higher level, they realize, like, okay, this sport has brought me some good things, but I didn't love it. And so there's a balance here of helping kids get to where they need to go, but also a quality of life piece. Like you probably could have gotten pretty far in football if you were like if if you stuck with it, because it's what you were really good at. Rhett Parker: Yeah. I played played varsity quarterback at a three thousand student as a freshman. split time with somebody. I probably played less than he did, but yeah, I mean I could throw a football fifty yards pretty easily. Jonathan: Had you gone to college to do that, you could have gotten some really cool experiences, some really cool opportunities. But you would have looked back and be like, man, I don't. It wasn't. And so like, I wish I could say a definitive thing here. But as we talked about even before the show started, so much of this is nuanced and kid dependent. Rhett Parker: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jonathan: And when you have gotten to the level you've gotten to with your lived experience, with your wife's lived experience, you understand those nuances a little bit better. That it's not all it's cracked out to be. That like Rhett Parker: It's not. It's brutal. It's brutal. It's great. Jonathan: Five 5 a.m. workouts, like when I work for the football team at Liberty, like again, I'm in on the admin side of things. I'm in the office that after class or whatever, like I'm wearing my joggers and my my sweatshirt. Like I'm not out there at five AM in Virginia in February running gassers on the field because it's preseason workouts before the spring starts. Like them boys from Florida. were not in a good place those couple months we were doing that. And they made some great memories and they had the time of our some of them had the time of their lives. Others didn't last two years. Some didn't last a year because it's not always what it's cracked up to be. Rhett Parker: Bet. I bet. And and we glorify television, social media, like, man, look at you know, look at what Otani's doing. Okay. I I I I'll give an ex Anthony Rendon. Okay. What did he $250 million contract? He barely played. He barely played for the Angels. He does not like baseball. Like he he's he said it out loud, but I also know people that know him. He doesn't like baseball. Jonathan: Nikolo Nikolo Jokic is the same way in basketball. It's a means to an end for him. It's a job. Rhett Parker: Yeah. Izzy. Yeah. Yeah. And and hey man, if you if you don't like your job go do it. Go do it. Yes. Jonathan: If you can go out and get a job paying that much for 10 years and like you can push through a lot of things you don't like for for the right motivations and the right incentives. But as those of us who can't do what he can do and would dream of being in that spot, we're like, man, how can you not love it? Because some like baseball can be pretty boring. Basket basketball can be like these sport like yeah. Rhett Parker: Hundred per cent. One hundred percent. Right. Right. Yeah, yeah. Can be hurt all the time like he was, man. It's not fun. It's not fun. Like. Jonathan: It and so once once you have been there or you've been around people who have been there, it changes your perspective. And that's why there's the trope of the the guy who played JV who's the hardest coach in the world to play for now. If I would have had someone who believed in me, I could have gotten no, you couldn't have. You like you you wouldn't have if you're 38 years old saying some other person didn't get you there, you never would have got there in the first place. If you're saying I wish my parents would have pushed me, that's just you saying Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. Jonathan: I can't take ownership for not pushing myself when I was a child and I want to blame someone else. Rhett Parker: And you know, I I I've I've I I'm sure you've given this take, you know. I try to keep up. I'm not a huge social media person, but I do love watching you. I I I love watching, you know, your stuff. That's awesome. That's good. do you think that and and and I have my belief that that like you have to have certain genetic Jonathan: You're good. I put I put way too much stuff out there. Gotta feed the algorithm. Rhett Parker: Gifts doesn't mean like it's so many people fight back on that with me, and I'm like, man, you you don't understand how like your genetic makeup will determine. Jonathan: God yes. Your kids have a better chance of being high-level athletes than my kids, solely because the genetics of mom and dad. Rhett Parker: Yeah, for sure. For sure. And it doesn't mean you can't Yeah. Jonathan: I know my genetics, I know my wife's genetics. That doesn't mean they can't be great high school varsity players if they love it. But you're a pro athlete. Your wife is a college athlete. There are genetics there that give your kid an advantage that my kid doesn't necessarily have. Rhett Parker: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I wasn't even that good. I mean, I look at other people you know, that I play with or against, I'm like, Whoa, I you think I'm an athlete? No, no, no. That guy puts me out the passion because as you move up in the pyramid, that pool and that pond get smaller and smaller and smaller. And if you think you're good in North Carolina, okay, now I'm gonna take you and we're gonna combine Texas, California, and Florida. Okay. Jonathan: Well, I I'll go one step further. I'm a small town in North Carolina. I had this conversation with a parent yesterday. There's a kid who's in eighth grade here who grew faster than everybody. He's great soccer player and super athletic. I know his entire family went to school with his family. Like he has athletic genetics. But every single side of his family, they stopped growing in eighth or ninth grade. So he's probably tapped out to where he's going to be size-wise. And all these kids are starting to catch up. And Dad expects a college scholarship for this kid. And we don't know if it's going to come or not. Like the kid has a drive, the kid wants it. But looking at the genetic situation, there's a good chance he's almost tapped out of his growth in eighth, ninth grade, or he Rhett Parker: And go for it, buddy. Go for it. Yeah. Like no one's saying no go for it. Yeah. Jonathan: will be. Go for it. But there are limitations. Like just because you grew early. The other example, everyone points to Michael Jordan of He got cut from his team from varsity, his was a sophomore year, and he just went out and worked really hard. And then he made he made the team the next year and then became Michael Jordan. Rhett, he grew six inches. He grew six inches in like nine months. He's set he's I think he's nine inches taller than his brother, who is a better at the time was a better basketball player than he was. He's so much taller than everyone else in his family. Rhett Parker: Yeah. Right. Jonathan: Had he not been given a genetic gift, he would have been a great basketball player at Cape Fear Community College or at UNC Wilmington. But he ain't in Chapel Hill if he doesn't grow six inches. Like that's just the reality of it. Rhett Parker: Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah, a hundred percent. Hundred percent. Jonathan: Like Chris Paul grew up 30 minutes from me. He's a year ahead of me in school. I I heard his whole journey. There were doubts about him all the way through, even though he was by far the best player in the area, because he's only six one. I saw I was at TST, which is the soccer tournament in Kerry, North Carolina. I was there earlier this month, about a month ago. This group of guys just walks in front of me. I don't think anything of it. It's just a group of like six-foot black dudes. They're there to watch soccer. I'm not thinking anything about it. Then I hear some behind me. That's Chris Paul. Hold that's Chris Paul. Like I didn't even recognize him because he just looked like every other dude there. Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jonathan: He's the one in a million that can take a s yeah. Yes. The reason we can name Muggsy Bogues, Nate Wa Robinson, and Isaiah Thomas for being the small guys is because they are such an outlier. Like if we can name the ones who did it, the champ Rhett Parker: Jon Outlier, Jonathan. Outlier. Yes. Dude, so Nate Robinson's from Seattle. I'm from Tacoma, Washington. Okay. Let me tell you something about Nate Robinson, though. He he because I played against him. Okay. I I'm 6'4. Nate's about 5'8. You can call him 5'9. 100%. Let me let me tell you something. There was a breakaway. And I'm like, okay, how am I going to block this? And I kind of went, I didn't, I sort of had an angle, but not really. I was like, and as I'm running on this, I'm like, this dude's gonna dunk over me anyways. Jonathan: Rhett Mudzy could dunk at five foot three. Rhett Parker: I'm gonna go for it. Bud, I mean, I had no shot of I mean, and I got dunked on, and the whole of course, you know, the whole the whole crowd goes berserk, and I'm like, at least I tried. I mean, I'm literally like 100%. Like, it wasn't as bad as what Tyson Chandler did to me down in Vegas, throwing a ball off the backboard and then like basically jumping over me and and and dunking over me. But you know what? Jonathan: I deserve I deserve that though. Rhett Parker: I I I I I I went I went down and I made a mid-range jump shot the next play and they both counted for two points. Like, cool. Like, you know, there's nothing I can do differently to stop what they're doing. And I think that's really hard for people to understand, Jonathan. It it's not. It's not. Jonathan: Yes. Again, it's not in our control. It it's why I I know this sounds crazy, but it's why parents are looking into human growth hormones to help their kids grow taller. It's why they're doing like it's it like I heard I heard David Sampson talk about this on a podcast once about how he's former president of the Marlins, how kids are doing like these stretches to try to make themselves taller. And I I'm like Rhett Parker: Jonathan, just I'm gonna check my pulse. Like Jonathan: At some point, you got what God gave you. Go out and make the best of it, but there's going to be there's a reason we have Division I, Division II, and Division Three. NAI as well, junior college. The D three guys aren't necessarily less talented than the D one guys. Oftentimes they are more talented. They're just six inches shorter. The only thing Rhett Parker: And AI too. Yep. Correct. Can't run. Can't run as fast. Jonathan: The only thing keep they can hit the ball just as hard. They can whatever, but they don't have that extra two inches of vertical leap to or to whatever. That's the only difference. Rhett Parker: Correct. And some of their ball skills are way better than Division One people. Like like I've I've watched guys take horrible routes to baseballs. It doesn't matter. They're gonna track it down and catch it no matter what r way they turn. Jonathan: Yes. So I went to school. I went to school with a guy named Johnny Staffine. And he played a year or two at Liberty, I think, at basketball. So we're Division I school. He's good. Was never a great standout player, like suit solid. Got to Division One. No, no shade at him. He's now training Division One or NBA basketball players of dribbling. Because you know what his skill set is? Dribbling the ball. Could he shoot very well? Nope. Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. Jonathan: But he can he knows how to dribble and he can teach it really well. So he's got guys in the NBA coming to him to learn how to dribble. Okay. He found the thing he was good at. He maximized it to his fullest potential and then learned how to teach it to someone else. Just because he wasn't an all-conference player, he didn't make it to the NBA, he's still at NBA games right now. Like, he's still like it's just what I think so many parents don't understand is there are so many roles around sports you can play even if you're not the athlete. I I'm a marginal athlete at best. I was cut from the JV baseball team. I never made the other teams. Like, I I'm Rhett Parker: Yeah. Love it. I love hearing that. Jonathan: probably like the first person cut. And I was the youngest person in my class. I had some things going. I was lazy at the time. Like, so I I was never that dude. But I wanted to know how to coach. And so my freshman year of high school, when I was in my coach's office getting cut, I told him I just want to learn how to coach. I was like, if you let me be on the team, like I don't care if I never play. I'll sit next to you in the dugout, I'll do whatever I'll keep the scorebook. I just I want to be part of a team and I want to learn how to coach. So he's like, let me talk to the varsity coach. And they decided to let me on the team that year. Sophomore year, we didn't have enough room for me to be on the team as well. But he invited me to be on like a student assistant. So I did that for two years for through my junior year for JV. Senior year, I got to move up New South with varsity to the point that my freshman year of college, I went to community college and interned with our high school baseball program so I could learn how to coach. I was at practice every single day learning how to coach. And then I went to to Liberty. I got involved with the student section. So I was I was at games having the time of my life, but I was also an a student intern that kind of worked my way up to a job within the football team, which then led to a grad assistant position within the entire athletic department to the point that even when I was done with grad school, they wanted me to stay on another year. And I could have stayed, but I w I wanted to go do something else. And so I did all of these roles, not because I was a great athlete, but I got my grad school paid for. Rhett Parker: Fine. Yeah. Jonathan: I was on scholarship both years of grad school because of the work I did for the football team of the athletic department. Was I a great athlete? No, but I had good academics, I had a good work ethic, and I had a skill set I could use and and a passion for sports. And so I I was telling you before we started, I had walk-in privileges with our head coach. I could walk I could knock on the door as a 20-year-old college student of a div Division I head football coach and tell him something. Rhett Parker: And a passion for sports. That's so cool. Jonathan: And he would come to me and he'd like, hey, hey, hey, j big John, what's going on today? What like and he'd ask he'd ask me what the news was. Or like we'd have these conversations about how like our basketball coach left while I was there. Actually, actually, I'll give you an here's a Seth Curry was a freshman while I was at Liberty. Steph's Steph's younger brother and had was big South player of the year, did all these things, and then he shocked our entire school by announcing he was transferring and he ended up transferring to Duke. Rhett Parker: Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I remember that. Jonathan: I remember when that first happened, I was on an elevator with Coach Rocco. And I was like, Coach, you hear Steph's Seth Sleeven? He goes, That makes sense. He needs a redshirt year, and there's no to grow to his body, there's no chance to get one here. Just off the cuff, he's telling me, he's analyzing what's going on in the recruiting space of another player because we had that type of relationship. It wasn't because I was an athlete. Rhett Parker: Yeah. Yeah. That's cool, man. Yeah. Jonathan: So like I made it to the division one level. But it was as a coach who was learning. Rhett Parker: My brother My brother Played a little varsity sports, wasn't he, he was fast, didn't, didn't want to work real hard. He's 5'11, 6'0. He's in professional baseball. He has been since he was 15. Bat boy. Okay. Then he became a very young visiting AAA clubhouse manager. And he was after he was an assistant clubhouse manager, then he took over a single A home clubhouse duties. He's the minor league equipment manager for for for Baltimore. Okay. Guess how many? There's one per team. He runs the complex. He's in sports every day. Gets to go to the field every day. Loves his job. Loves his job. He's in sports, been in sports 30 years, and he loves it. 100%. Jonathan: And he's building relationships with players 'cause although like players like you have a good equipment guy, players love that dude. Like Rhett Parker: Hey, you just said it. This is this is best advice we can give probably for for anybody that plays college beyond even high school. If you piss off your equipment person, they'll make your life miserable. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Jonathan: Or your trainer. Or your trainer. My college roommate is a is an equipment guy. He's at Kennesaw State now. But he he's been at he's been at Georgia Tech. He's been at Mercer. He's been he's at Kennesaw State now. Like and you know what you get to do? You get to go stand on the sidelines of every game. You get to be in the dugout. You get to do all the things that an athlete would get to do. Rhett Parker: Be your best friend, Jonathan. They'll be your best friend if you take care of Yeah. Jonathan: You just don't get the glory on the field. So like there are multi and you you know, those student athletic trainers, those student equipment managers, you know what they also get a lot of time if they're dedicated to their job? They also get scholarships. It might not be a full ride, but chances are your kids not getting a full ride anyways. Like the chances of that are so small. So I I'm not telling you don't pursue a dream in sports or don't or don't help your kid pursue their dream of being an athlete. But what I want you to hear is that there are so many ways to be involved in sports and get your college partially paid for if you do it the right way, if you work hard, if you have a skill set. Like I was a graphic designer and I picked up video. Like, so my as the grad assistant for the football team or for the athletic department, I ran our video board. I didn't know how to do that. They taught me on the fly. I Did all of our post-game press conferences and edited the video. It wasn't super high quality edits. I they just needed somebody to get the job done. I I ran the like the ribbon boards. We got ribbon boards for basketball and volleyball while I was there. I created the graphics and ran those. Like I learned as I was going, but you know what? My college got paid for. I got to be around sports. I got to sit on the sidelines. I got to ride. Like I remember I did a day in the life. video package for our website where I followed a basketball player on a road trip. So I was on the team bus. I got to go to the the restaurant like I got to do all the things without having to work out, without having to to do the hard stuff. And no, I just I I I went to the NCAA tournament with our women's basketball team. And I got to sit on the inline of Freedom Hall in Louisville as a 22 year old. Rhett Parker: Yeah. That's so cool. But you didn't have to do any gassers. So what what way I've said this for a a number of years to kids and parents, you know, obviously more in the baseball space. We have two things. Okay. And and just because we played at different levels, we still have the same two things, Jonathan. We have experiences and relationships. That's what we that that's what we have, bro. Jonathan: Can I show you some? Rhett Parker: You get a ring? Jonathan: There's both there's both my conference championship rings. Like, did I did I play on the field? No. But I I I keep those here on my desk to have for conversations like this. I was a part of a team. I was a part of a program where I was seen highly enough that they gave me those rings. Rhett Parker: Love it. That's awesome. That's so cool. Nope. Yeah. Yep. My brother's got some rings too, buddy. Cause without equipment, you can't play. You know, w without people doing all the things that you did and and and and he does and other people do behind the scenes. There's there is no program. There is no team. Jonathan: Yeah, yeah. Correct. Like I I remember my first semester working for the football team, I was a practicum student. Meaning for one of my college classes, I had to do a 70-hour internship. And so I worked for the for the receptionist and did some reception work. But as we were going into the spring at the end of spring ball, we always did our like end of season banquet. They called it the senior appreciation dinner. And Our director of football operations asked me if I could make a flyer or like a program for it. And I looked at past programs. I'm like, these look like crap. I can do better. So I went to Paul. I was like, Paul, can I turn this into like a brochure? Like I have graphic design. So like, would you mind if I did that? He's like, I go for it. They're not paying me. I'm like, why wouldn't you take it? So I remember two pieces here. I was in one of our film rooms one day on the computer doing the graphic design. So I've got it on the projector. And I'm zoomed in like 800% on our head coach trying to cut something out. And his wife walks by and she's like, goodness. And so it was it was just funny. But then after I got the whole thing done, I'm walking in the building one day and you walk in on ground level. That's where the locker room is, that's where the training staff is. Then the second level is where all the coaches' offices are. Rhett Parker: That's that's good. Jonathan: And I'm walking up the stairs. It's a little you go up half, turn the other half. Coach Rocco's walking by. I don't know that he knows my name at this point. I'm just a practicum kid. He walks by, he goes, Big John, saw that program. That's big stuff right there. That's big stuff. And he just kept walking. I'm a 20-year-old college ju sophomore, dude, junior. I was a junior at this point. The head football coach knew my name, saw my work, and thought well enough of it that he walked past and unprompted he said that to me. I'm now a 39-year-old man telling you this story 19 years later because of the impact it had on me. It wasn't because I was a great athlete. It was because the things I learned in sports I was able to apply to a different skill set around sports that allowed me to be involved in sports. Rhett Parker: What it's about. Jonathan: And still have success in the thing that I was doing, at what I was talented at, because I'm a better designer, graphic design, than I am athlete. Rhett Parker: But look at the impact you're making on sports. And and I think it it, buddy, it gets lost, man. Like just because you're not an athlete, yeah. the people, some of the athletes we've talked about, they probably have a bigger platform to reach more people, you know, if they want to. But it doesn't just because you don't have that platform doesn't mean you don't have your your own platform or your own experiences to draw from and your own relationships to draw from. Jonathan: Yes. Correct. Rhett Parker: And those are the two things you have. And some of some people get really lucky, like Anthony Rendon, and have a ton of money and they're set for life. And good for those people. But I've continued to hammer this home to people because you know people in sports just like I do that played at the highest level, that don't have Anthony Rendon money, that are selling insurance, that are coaches, that are doing because they're not set. So even if you make it there, you're still not set, guys. So I I wanna I wanna do a couple of things. As we wrap this up, because I I I gotta get you your opinion on this, man. Okay. So we've talked about a lot of stuff. Okay, as it pertains to genetics, as it pertains to parent behavior, coaches behavior, all these things, right? And and I'm going through it now myself, right? Do you believe, and what's your opinion, that when these clubs go to the parents and are man. Your 11-year-old, 12-year-old, 13-year-old, 10-year-old, it's really good. We want them on our team. Or we want to pick them up for this. We'll pay for this. We'll do this. We'll do this. To me, it is eroding the expectations for the child to be great at a sport at those ages. And it's busting the parents' egos are just going, boom. It's killing you sports. What do you got? Jonathan: There's so many directions I No, there there's so many directions I could go with it. Rhett Parker: That's a loaded question. Yeah. Jonathan: I'll give you an example. I was talking to a friend of mine this morning. His daughter is a rising fifth grader. four sport athlete right now. mom was a Division I athlete. great kid. Love this girl. I coach this girl. She got asked a week or so ago to play a tournament with the We've got a sixth and seventh grade middle school girls basketball team. They had a tournament, they had some girls out. Asked if she wanted to play up. They have they have a wedding that weekend or whatever, and he's Hey, would you want play some games before the wedding? She's like, Yeah, I guess so. And then so he's like, Okay, cool. Text the coach back, told him. Coach is like, Well, we got practice tonight from six to seven thirty if she wants to come. And this is like four o'clock in the afternoon. Daughter's like, Do I gotta go? No. Sorry, we can't make it. To me, That is a healthy view of this. A coach texted the parent and said, Hey, we've got a spot. We have a need. Does your kid want to play? Parent went to kid, said, Hey, are you interested? Sure. Why not? Parent told coach, sure. Coach said, Hey, we're practicing tonight if you can make it. Parent went back to daughter. No, I had soccer camp today. I've been out all afternoon. I don't want to go back tonight and practice. Sorry, can't make it. And left it up to the coach. Do you still want this girl to play? But dad protected daughter. He let daughter choose what she wanted to do because it was an extra. It wasn't part like she's got her own team she plays for. So it was like, had it been her team's practice, dad would have said, you need to go. But because it was extra, dad has dad's one of the best coaches I know. Rhett Parker: Love it. Jonathan: Athlet he's been an athletic director at the high school level. He's coached every sport. Like he's an incredible coach. He gets it. So he was able to protect his daughter. He has nothing to prove out of his daughter's athletic journey. He just wants her to try as many sports as she can and to find what she loves. Rhett Parker: Love He's in the minority, Jonathan. Jonathan: I know. That's why I use him as an example. Because that's the way we do it. We let our kids choose what they want to do. And if the kid wants to do it, okay. If it matches our family schedule, okay, let's support the things our kid wants to do. Because if you go back to the story, the dad said they have a wedding that weekend. And so, all right, I mean, it's not super he's he's a single his his wife passed away a few years ago. So he's a single dad of a 10 year old. And he could have easily said, No, I don't want to do this. It's it adds to our family. But he went to his daughter and said, Hey, what do you want to do? I want to support you. Daughter said, Yeah. So he said, All right, cool. We'll make it work. Practice. What do you want to do? I know. Because it's an extra. That's what that's the emphasis I want say here. When it's these extra things, it should be led by the kid. The whole journey should be led by the kid overall. But When it's a when it's the primary sport, yeah, you might make them go to practice even when they don't want to because that's a commitment you made. When it's this extra stuff, a lot of times parents just want to be at the ball field. Parents just want to see their kid play. They want to see their kid play. And so it's like, we got this opportunity. My kid loves this sport. And so it's less about the yeah, yes, the kid likes playing, but there's this subtle like pressure there of, hey, you got this opportunity, you want to do it? You really want to do it? You sure you want to do it? Rhett Parker: Yes. Jonathan: And like I I went to my daughter's room earlier because she just finished soccer camp today. I was like, you more or less excited to play at the middle school this year, more. I was like, awesome. And I'd walk out of the room and I was like, Hey, by the way, you know if that ever changes, like you don't have to play, right? She goes, But I want to. I was like, I know, like I I get that. I I just want you like as your soccer co someone who's coached you a bunch of times, like who's involved with this, who has this platform, I want you to know if that ever changes, that's fine. She's like, Okay. Rhett Parker: Right. Right. Jonathan: But it's gotta be her thing, not my thing. It can't be because I'm the healthy sports parents guy. I'm the guy who has this platform, like I need my kid to be this great athlete. She's not great. Like, but she likes playing. She'll watch a c a couple games with me. but sports for her, by and large, especially soccer, is a social thing. Rhett Parker: Right. Yeah. She's having fun. Is she watching World Cup? Okay. That's f that's cool. Like Social, yeah. Jonathan: She loves being out there with the girls. She loves being a part of the team. She's she's talented. Don't get me wrong. Like she has she has some talent. Will the desire to work hard and compete and all those things show up? She's 11, dude. I don't know. Like it hasn't gotten there yet. Some kids are naturally more competitive, some have to learn it. But as long as she wants to play, I will, I will give her opportunities and say, Hey, you want to do this? Nope. Cool. You want to do this? Rhett Parker: Yeah, maybe. Jonathan: Yeah, I think I do. Okay. We'll go do it. Rhett Parker: have you talked because I because I've coached a lot of people, Jonathan, how much have you talked about? You say healthy sports parents, right? It's not just about dealing with your kids, it's about dealing with yourself too. I know some people who I it my my heart breaks for them because their whole identity became their kid playing. And I and I and yes and I watch them now that their kids done Jonathan: Mm-hmm. They're a baseball mama or a hockey dad or yep. Rhett Parker: They got nothing to do, brother. Jonathan: Well they they they have nothing to do, but they also don't know how to talk to their kid because the entire relationship was built around the sport. Rhett Parker: Yep. It's the saddest thing you'll ever see, dude. I I mean it it it 'cause I I there's some people I know and and it I look I take a step back. Jonathan: Yeah. Rhett Parker: Dude, you your sport your kids' sports life is is it's not big, guys. It's yes, but l let's just say you go play in college. It it's dude, they're they're twenty two. It's still it's small. Jonathan: Most are done by thirteen. So the the th the thing I say all the time is one day your kid will stop playing the sport. 13, 18, 22, LeBron James, 75, I don't know. But at some point your kid's gonna stop playing this game. And you still have decades to be their parent. And how you navigate this 10 to 15 year journey, if you're lucky, will impact the 50 years after. Because it's sets the foundation for the relationship. And that I mean that's we get to a whole other episode with that. I will be self-promotional here for a second. The Healthy Sports Parents course is available. So if you want to do the work on yourself, the entire it's eight module course takes 45 minutes to go through, but it helps you understand some of these things you're dealing with internally so that you can lead your kid in a better way. it's available for parents, available for teams, available for entire leagues and clubs. So Rhett Parker: No, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Jonathan: Healthy sportsparents dot com has that. Sorry, I had to get that out there. Rhett Parker: Yeah. No, you're good. I I I I was gonna ask one more thing and then I was gonna say, yeah. Pro pro promo it what what Jonathan: Go for it. Rhett Parker: Why people and granted, you know, we just started doing this a couple months ago and it it's been great for me personally to to talk to people like you and other people as we're all trying to survive you sports and be healthy sports parents. It's the same thing. And I I loved hearing your story, man. I I think it's awesome because when you're talking, sometimes we like, and there's a few other people, you we just had positive sports. Jonathan: Morgan, she's great. Rhett Parker: Yeah, Morgan. she's awesome, but we we don't know your stories. And I think that's really what we're trying to do here is, hey man, everyone's got a different story. And and now hearing that, you know. Yep. Yep. She a hundred percent. And it's awesome to hear these stories, man. And and it just it it kind of builds into the whole thing that this is all an experience and all relationship. What is the one thing? I mean, there's a lot. Jonathan: 'Cause she played at Carolina, she got there, like she sh she's the athlete. Rhett Parker: But what are we getting wrong right now in you I know it's a I know it's a deeper question, but like what what are we getting wrong and what advice do you have for people out there that that are that are trying to survive this journey, man? I love loading the the I love loading the last question for you. Jonathan: No, no. No, no, no. I so on my on my show, my one of the last two questions I always ask is what if I what have I not asked you today that parents need to hear the answer to? And like it's even more open-ended to what you just said. I think I go back to, and it's probably just because at the core of the way I process is is that self-love and self-glory piece. Rhett Parker: Yeah, right. Ha ha. Jonathan: I think as parents, we have so many insecurities we don't know about and that we don't realize that it's just making us approach this in an unhealthy way. Like we can talk about systemic issues, we can talk about predatory coaches, we can talk about like all like year-round sports being unhealthy. We can talk about all those things. You can't control those. The only thing you can control is how you approach this with you and your family. And Rhett Parker: You can't control those though. Jonathan: When you have when you're more secure in the fact that you are loved, you are valued, you don't have to earn love, you don't have to earn value. When when you're more secure in those truths, okay, my kid doesn't get playing time. That sucks, but I don't have to chase it. Okay, this my kid's not playing at the highest level, but you know what? This team matches our schedule a lot better. And my kid can also go to dance class, or they can go to art camp, or they can go do all these other things. Like it, my kid can be a well-rounded kid who does everything. Cool. But it that only happens when we're secure in ourselves. And to take that to the other side of the coin, when we are secure in ourselves, when that kid who loves baseball so much and that's all they want to do, when they get to the end of their road and say, Hey, mom, I think I'm done. We know who we are. We know that, we know where we get love from. We know where we get value from. We know like it's not a shockwave to our identity because we're not getting love out of the sport. We we know that we're loved deeply, that we're cared about fully, that we don't have to earn respect or earn others liking us. They're gonna like us or they're not. Like when we when we understand those things, it turn takes the pressure down some and allows us to say, Hey, hey kid, what do you want to do? Like, because all man, ROTC can teach so many these lessons. Robotics can teach so many of these lessons. And individual sport I'm interviewing the president of like the National Mountain Biking League or something like what I forget the name of it. Because like some kids are not a team sport kid. Some kids used to go have ride their bike through the woods. Like Rhett Parker: Ho ho golf golf is a great sport too, gosh. Like yeah. Jonathan: I I'm all yucky and nasty here right now because I have a standing game on a disc golf game on Thursdays with some friends of mine. So I was outside in the woods for two hours or I got sunscreen all over me. I've sweat. I haven't taken a shower yet. So like when we get off here, I'm going upstairs and I get a shower. Like, but like that's an activity where I get to be with friends and I get to be I get to be active and I get to compete and I get to try hard things. And like there's so many places we can learn these lessons. So like Rhett Parker: Love it. Jonathan: If we're secure in ourselves, we can just let our kids go the direction they're gonna go and let and then use that direction to teach the lessons in show instead of trying to force it. Rhett Parker: And I I tell my kids all the time, man, hey, if this is what you want and you're passionate about it, let's go for it. If you want to go be a chef, I use chef as the example. Sweet, let's go do some cooking lessons. Like, let's go see how much we like like I it does not matter to us. Jonathan: My son skipped soccer camp this week because he's at a camp at the l local science center. He wanted to do that this week instead. Cool. We got plenty of time to play soccer. But he wanted to do this camp about experiments and blowing stuff up and like learning. Okay, sure. Like Rhett Parker: Now, I I'll I'll end on I'll end on this because this is I'm gonna I'm gonna be selfish here and ask one one this this is the way that our family views it love your opinion on it okay so soccer now so the twins are playing ECNL I'm sure you've done enough of these to know ECNL's Yep and I go Okay Yep well that a hundred percent if this is what you guys want to do we'll do it okay Jonathan: Yep. High level. God bless your bank God bless your bank account. You're gonna be spending fifteen thousand dollars a year. Rhett Parker: However, we can't do this or this now. And you have to make that choice. And if we're going to spend, you just said it, X amount, you're going to have to do a little bit more than you're doing right now. So we know that you're bought into doing this. And if you guys, we're not forcing you to do it, but if you don't want to do this and you don't want to not do this, we're not doing ECNL, guys. Like, period. This is where we're at. And and the kind of the look on their faces was like I go, you don't have to answer right now. Because we we sort of knew they were gonna be on the team, like they're really good, and and and she's on the boys ECNL team. So like we have a whole nother that's a whole nother that's a whole nother deal. That's probably a half an episode in itself doing boy girl doing, you know, boy stuff. But we we let them sort of like you're saying, decide. And and and Jonathan: Yep. Mm-hmm. Rhett Parker: The other the not pushing them too much, but like they they're they're supposed to do some mobility stuff, just the way their bodies are built, and some ACL prevention stuff. My wife's a physician, so and they didn't do it for a few days in a row. And I go, hey guys, you know, we sort of talked about this, and they're like, yeah. one one my son goes, I need a list. Go make your list, buddy. I I want to be reminded. She's like, okay, I can do this. And they're both doing it separate times. And they're both putting the work in. And I feel like we're right going, hey man, this is this level now. We're above a level that we're you need to do more. What do you got? What do you got, Jonathan? Selfish question. Like, Jonathan: I'm a giant believer in the idea of counting the costs. Here are the requirements for the thing you want to do. Are you willing to do these things in order to do the thing you want to do? Yes or no? No wrong answer. But if the answer is no, we're not going to do it. But to play at this level requires a certain level of commitment. You're going to have to not be able to do other things. Are you okay with that? If they say yes, Then for the remainder of the season, like so I have this take that you shouldn't push your kids. You should lead your kids. Pushing means you are exerting force on them to take them a direction they don't want to go. Leading says, hey, you want to go this place, I know how to get there, come follow me. And so what I see this situation as is, hey, you said you want to get do this thing. I know how to get you there. Here are the things you're gonna have to do to get there. And to hold them to that commitment through the duration of what they signed up for. Sure. Then once we get to the completion of this duration, hey, you want to do it again? Rhett Parker: Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Jonathan: Do you you you don't you don't have to, but you've seen what it takes. You've seen what's expected of you. Do you want to do it? Do you wanna do it? Yes, dad, I'd like to. Cool. Dad, that's a little too much. I think I'd like to go to a lower level. Awesome. Let's find you a team. Rhett Parker: My son is only gonna pitch next year on his own account. Doesn't want to stop playing baseball, likes pitching, doesn't love hitting. Perfect. There's enough time to do pitching and ECL. There is. Like, and guess what, bud? If you don't like it after we could I love I feel I I feel I feel vindicated. If you don't like it, next May, you can look at me and go, man, I miss hitting. I miss playing in the field. Okay, sweet. We're not doing ECNL. We're gonna go he goes, I wanna go back. You can do that as an eighth grader. Does it? It's not gonna it's up to you, bud. And it's gonna be totally okay. I'm not trying to put myself on a pedestal here, but like sometimes it's good. Jonathan: So so but here's a way to to think about it and for for our listeners to think about it. I am a giant fan of on-ramps and off-ramps. Like we cannot mentally we cannot go into something with no off-ramps. Like an open-ended, this is gonna be forever. Like, no, like our off-ramp, before we even get on the highway, let's talk about where this is gonna take us. Okay, cool. Here are our off-ramps. I I'm sure. Knowing the stuff as well as I do, if you get to December and your kid hates it, there's probably a way to get out of the spring season. If if they absolutely if they absolutely cause there's a fall season and spring season. There's probably a way to get to get out of it. So all right, hey, we're gonna commit to this. The expectation is we're going all the way to May. If we get to December and it ain't a thing and you're miserable, and whatever, let's talk. We'll we'll see what our options are. Rhett Parker: Probably. Yeah. Yep. Jonathan: And we'll we'll see what we can do. And then we'll adjust. But the goal is to get to May. And then once you get to May, let's reevaluate. You're not committed. You're not committing to this for the rest of your high school career. You're committing to this for the rest of this grade. Cool, let's go do it. Rhett Parker: Right, right. Love it. Well, Jonathan, man, this is awesome. Like I said, we're we're on our little journey here. and and you're sort of the first thing that popped up. And now my algorithm, now I get everybody's, even the even the there's crazy travel ball dad podcast, and people got wild takes that on rankings and 10 year olds and 14 year olds, and it's all over my algorithm now. all this stuff. But man, I I I love what you're doing. and and I think, you know, whether it's you or it's us, all we're trying to do is help people, man. And and you may not agree with everything and man, they I love you know, the trolls are always out, buddy. They always will be. but I I truly think there's a lot of people that I've talked to lately, including yourself, and I'm sure you're in the same boat. we're trying to help people, man. You know, and and it might not be for you, and that's okay. but I I love what you're doing. I love it, dude. I love it, man. And and I honestly loved hearing your journey, brother. Because I I feel like sometimes people like you and like I said, others, we d we don't have enough backstory to be like, man, that's a that's a cool story. And I that's what we're trying to provide here is the backstories and the experience that led us to being able to give these opinions and advice and Jonathan: But we're we're here when you realize you're wrong. Rhett Parker: and and and things to to help, you know, surviv again, surviving you sports is it's a real thing, bro. so thank you for your time, man. I r I really appreciate it, brother. Jonathan: Absolutely. Thanks for having me.