Drew Reiners: We Paid for Perfection — The Reality Behind Youth Sports Tournaments

Rhett Parker: welcome to another episode of Surviving Youth Sports. I'm your host, Rhett Parker, and today, very ⁓ interesting Drew Reiners, founder and operator of West Coast Premier Tournaments, and friend of mine. Welcome to show, Drew. Drew Reiners: I appreciate you guys having me on. Look forward to chatting. Rhett Parker: Absolutely. And I'm gonna, I'm just gonna dive right into it as many moons ago, Drew and I were ⁓ quasi ⁓ in ⁓ baseball tournament market in the Pacific Northwest and Drew was working for Triple Crown, which is a national brand. And I was this little, tiny peon ⁓ trying to figure out what I was going to do with my life ⁓ and started at tournament company and built that and Drew and I ended up partnering, years down the road. And I always respected everything that you did. And, ⁓ I want to just get into it. There is a negative aura ⁓ about youth tournaments. matter what sport it is. ⁓ And how do how do you deal with that? And by the way, it's changed immensely ⁓ over the years. talk about your background and what changes you see and how we're all supposed to deal with this. Drew Reiners: Yeah, I mean, I'm going into my 19th running youth baseball tournaments for a living. So I've seen, seen some changes over the years, ⁓ some for the good, some for the not so good. And, there's, there's obviously a lot of challenges always that, that we face. And then, some of those are definitely just kind of the negative, ⁓ these guys are doing this for, for the money or that for the money. And, for me, it's, it's always been about finding a balance between Being able to run a business, right? But at the same time also providing a value to the customers. know, if there's increases that we need to do from a business standpoint, the adding value is so important to me. Not just adding price to add price. know, things have changed a lot. know, from the days where we used to pay an umpire $40 a game to now, that's almost... Rhett Parker: ⁓ I'm sorry. I hurt my rib there just because we are so far out of that world right now. Sorry. Go ahead. Drew Reiners: Yeah, mean that's not borderline what our ⁓ per game assigning fee is in some markets, know, 40 bucks a game. So, ⁓ it's important for us to focus on ⁓ our making sure we have a ⁓ quality facility ⁓ do our to provide quality game officiating. And a lot of that starts ⁓ with Rob Weir, my UIC in-house here at West Coast Premier. And he just spends every day. in trainings and trying to develop the upcoming new umpires and providing opportunities for even the experienced guys to get better and learn more. But those controllables, that's what we have to focus on because there are too many uncontrollables that happen during an event. We can't control the weather, but we can control how we communicate with people about the weather. Rhett Parker: You can't control the umpires either. I won't go into I won't go into it We I play in your tournaments. I There was an incident last year and I used to own a tournament company I've coached and I came in time many games that I've never seen before in an 11 you game last year and the guy is an experienced guy and and handled it about as poorly as humanly possible Drew Reiners: Yeah, you can, you can. Rhett Parker: It was kind of lucky that it was me because if it was anybody else, like you got a major problem in your hands, It was kind of lucky that it was me because if it was anybody else, like you got a major problem in your hands, but you can't control it. By the way, this is a 350 team tournament. Drew Reiners: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, 335 teams in Bend, Oregon every year. So it's a bear. Yeah, 335 teams in Bend, Oregon every year. So it's a bear. ⁓ Rhett Parker: You're going You're going to have problems. You are going. There is nothing that Drew Reiner's West Coast Premier and this is for perfect game. Whoever if you have that many teams and that many fields and that many unparalleled not many coaches not many parents and that much traffic and that much ⁓ there will be problems. have problems. You are going. ⁓ if you that many teams and that many fields and that many unparalleled not many coaches not many parents and that much traffic and that much ⁓ whatever there will be problems. Drew Reiners: ⁓ Yeah, no doubt. And no matter how much we train guys, can't train them in every element of conflict resolution or de-escalation. And sometimes some of our more experienced umpires are ⁓ a lot willing ⁓ to listen feedback or constructive criticism. That's why one of our focuses is trying to ⁓ develop the movement and umpiring. But even then, ⁓ you face with these younger kids that aren't quite as ⁓ socially capable that will call in COVID babies that are staring at their phones. And it's a fun challenge, but yeah, it's uncontrollable. mean, we spend our mornings are chaos. I mean, we get at the fields, we have our staff at the fields sometimes three hours beforehand because what we can control again is the communication. there's weather, our mission is always to try to make sure people don't show up to the field and get the notification when they're at the complex that they've been delayed. We're also Rhett Parker: you Drew Reiners: just dragging our staff all over parking lots and Everywhere possible to find guys and you never know if a person's gonna show up even or not because they're not They're not our guys right like we contract an outside association Everywhere we go whether it be Lincoln, Nebraska or down in Phoenix or out in Vegas we're using local umpires and You lose control of a situation like that because they're not per se your guys and you can only do so much to try to control someone else's know, contract workers and it's stressful. Rhett Parker: And it doesn't, it also doesn't help. And this is just, it's a, it's a job for me, but I kind of like saying this doesn't help when your coach in that game happens to know the rules really well. And, and like, and coaches, I say, see, you're not out there to embarrass the umpire. If a rule, ⁓ and go, Hey like, this is actually the rule. You can look it up. And you're not yelling that at him. You're having a conversation, especially at the youth stuff. as frustrating as that was for me and my team last year, I didn't get kicked out. I probably maybe could have, but I didn't cuss at the guy. I didn't do any of that stuff. And I would say, man, just in my experiences as coaching, even playing in your events, God dang, that's like rare. I mean, people like are getting pissed about box. 11 and I'm like, hey man, if you want to, if you really want to have our guy like call that balk which is like borderline and that means that might go ahead, go ahead coach. We'll just send them to third ⁓ we'll call it good. ⁓ it's your fault drew because they're not calling balk right? What? Drew Reiners: always. I think there's ⁓ a mentality that comes along with ⁓ running event, it doesn't even have to be sports, right? Where the expectation is, we paid for this, so ⁓ we get this. You know what I mean? Like, we paid to be here in Bend, Oregon. So because we paid to be here, we should be getting absolute perfection. ⁓ look, Rhett Parker: Right. Right. Drew Reiners: I want, I try everything I can to be as perfect as we can with everything we can control. ⁓ But that's the expectation we have to live, we live under as tournament guys and it's not just me, it's any tournament guy that's the, know, I paid, we paid $900 to play in your tournament, we should have better umpires, ⁓ I don't that they're, they're totally wrong, right? But they, I think that there's a certain thought that we are just throwing guys out there and Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Drew Reiners: We're definitely not, doing everything we can. run Rob and Joe Walters, they're running training on Thursday night and Friday night before bed. We want the local high school programs involved in our events. We want local teams, we're running trainings before the events in Wenatchee. We're doing what we can to try to get these kids almost like a crash course before we throw them out there. But we need 150 umpires on some weekends and there's just no way we can have two guys do six games a day for three days, right? I mean, that's not fair to them. Rhett Parker: You can't because it's not safe, number one, but you also you can do all the trainings in the world. It's still, it's not going to be perfect, but you just said something. Okay, we need to use local guys. Okay. There's 335 teams of Bend, Oregon, okay. Or Lincoln, Nebraska. I just, and I think this is so important to hear. And this isn't me defending you. Okay. or perfect game or whatever. I'll tell you what, with Northwest Elite, which is our travel thing that, we go to different places, man, we played some perfect game events that were great. We played some perfect game events that are awful, that are ran by completely different people. And some of those people, and not just perfect game, some of those people, are scumbags. They just want your money and they'll do, oh, we can get a cancel a game. Sweet, we'll cancel it like... ⁓ we just made, 300, but like there's, there's plenty. The problem is, is there's a lot of those people and then there's a lot of really good people. But I really want to hammer this point home. You brought up in, you brought up Lincoln, Nebraska, Las Vegas. Okay. There's 335 teams. Okay. How many umpires are within an hour drive of Bend, Oregon? Drew Reiners: I think we have eight to 10 local Central Oregon guys that work that event. And we have, yeah, that's it. have 65 diamonds. Rhett Parker: Okay. And then you and and then you pick up some high school kids to do the nines and 10s, which is which and they do they honestly sometimes do a better job. So so you're having to go outside of this area and parents coaches please listen to this because I think this is a misconception. Okay. When you do that, you have to pay for their travel. Drew Reiners: Yep. Yep. They do. ⁓ Rhett Parker: some, sometimes food, if I'm not mistaken, and they're lodging in Bend, Oregon, which is a hotspot for Memorial Day weekend. Then you brought up those local guys. Some of those guys don't want to work that weekend because they want to go do something with their families. So it's not like you're also getting all these guys. and for the non-business people out there, ⁓ explain that means ⁓ for as a tournament operator for Just that particular weekend as an example. Drew Reiners: Yeah, mean for the last six months we've set aside, we just had a meeting with our hotel partner this morning, we set aside 60 hotel rooms in central Oregon. And those aren't free, know, they're probably running an average of 239 to 339 a night. Rhett Parker: at in Ben for memorial at 239. I mean, 50 minutes away, like Drew Reiners: We've got, I think our lowest one is 229 for that weekend on 60 rooms and we're lodging them Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights. ⁓ Which is also somewhat, we should technically probably lodge them Monday night, right? Cuz they're still working five or six games, but most of them that we're getting are within a three or four hour drive radius. They can go home Monday night. ⁓ We historically have paid every single umpire that travels into town, we pay them. Rhett Parker: Then they're gas. Drew Reiners: I believe it's 200 for our Tri-Cities ones, I think it's 100. We pay $200 per guy. And that's to cover their fuel and some food. Yes, correct. Yeah. Rhett Parker: Just to get there. This isn't the games. And so when people, and granted I have obviously inside knowledge of this, being an operator, And people can argue about this. And I think it's a real differentiation, because not everybody does it right. If you set your tournament fee, at X and it's too much, then people won't come. Okay. But you have to pay for all I mean, that lodging is 10s 10s and 10s and 10s of 1000s of dollars sound like you're just raking in. So stay to play. Which me, I am not a fan of I don't like it. But there are plenty of exceptions not just with West Coast Rear. But with even some perfect game stuff where to lodge it to run the event to run this all these fields is you have to do it because you will lose even though the fee might seem high. You will lose ⁓ money. Drew Reiners: ⁓ you go back around to the umpire rooms alone, right? Like it, ⁓ one the benefits for us as a business is, is if we can get a team to stay in one of our partner hotels, we've got a contract with said hotel where we can earn out ⁓ a comp night, for every 20 rooms that are actualized. Right. And when we go to Phoenix, Arizona in March here next month, I mean, we've got, we've got 18 rooms. that we need for our umpires for that one because that's another high demand bringing in lot of outside of Arizona guys. ⁓ know, we'll have ⁓ those guys, again, they'll get a stipend of some kind, they get themselves there. ⁓ we're of the very few companies that has done the stipends historically and other entities and companies will just say, hey, you want to work for us in Vegas? ⁓ Get yourself here, yourself and ⁓ Rhett Parker: You gotta fly those guys in. You gotta fly a lot of those guys in. Drew Reiners: We'll get you games type of deal. We try to take care of the guys because we know the demands that it puts on them. They're going because they want to make some money. yeah, if we can, one of the elements that's state of play helps is if we can earn a few comp nights, where we're looking at five nights stay for our umpires in Arizona. Did I earn two comp nights? That takes our costs down to maybe three. We got to buy three for that particular hotel. It's one of the angles from our business side that helps us Not just push all those costs back onto the teams because at the end of the day could we just say open lodging raise our entry fees to a certain amount Yes, and that's one thing we're experimenting this year with the DFC is is if your team wants to just do your own lodging That's fine. But here's that price point if your team wants to lodge with us here's this price point because that's just based on demand and know recommendations and just trying to listen to people like here's two price points for you for Vegas. Rhett Parker: You're now you're opening up another can. Okay. And, and, and, and now that I've coached the team and, and, and obviously I, I very blessed to get cost down and do different things, right. And have former players come in and help train and different people and coaches. But okay. People get upset about a tournament fee. And again, I'm I'm not defending because there's people with exorbitant tournament fees and lodging stuff. And you're like, Drew Reiners: Yep. Yep. Rhett Parker: I'm not gonna call people out here because it's we're trying to be positive, right? But this is a little bit of the dark side of sports. Let's say the tournament fees $1,000. Let's just say it is. No logic. My God, $1,000. Okay, well I have 12 players. Drew Reiners: Yeah. Rhett Parker: Okay. It's not even a hundred bucks. Okay. I do that five times and say it's 80 bucks, which it's not because not the use stuff's not even a thousand bucks around here. It's a fraction of what they're paying. It's not even, it's not even 20%. And when you go to the bigger organizations that do all the indoor training, all that stuff got facilities, dude, Drew Reiners: Right. Yeah. Rhett Parker: I remember during COVID, I'm like, man, we won't go into much of that rabbit. Let me me explain. If you were a tournament operator on the West Coast during COVID, you you really you aged quickly. I'll just I'll just leave it at that. But you started to do the math on what the actual tournament fee percentage wise of the the cost of the team fee. It was like, I remember doing it. One point 8 % I mean something where you're like what it's so nominal now back back in the day it wasn't it was a big part of what you paid for it's not now it's not and there's just the stigma of like man these guys are they're raking it in and yes if you do something well in life and you provide value You should be compensated. Drew Reiners: I mean that most people sit at their nine to five on a daily and whatever job they have in there I'm assuming their mission is probably to find a revenue source or a profit for a company some company right and Like to your point we we try to find a happy medium with what with WCP we're not we're not out here trying to to find a you Rhett Parker: Right? Right. Right. Mm Yeah, for sure. Drew Reiners: a 50 % margin on every event. But we do need to run a business because we do want to grow, we want to follow ⁓ some new convergence locations or destinations. We want to grow our business and that takes, ⁓ obviously that takes some money at the end to put into that travel and research and potentially adding some new staff in the future. Whatever it may be. Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. So like any other business, it just happens to be in new sports. ⁓ And I think, when people pick their tournaments, forget it's baseball, forget whatever, ⁓ I, you can see if someone cares if really want to, doesn't mean you had a great experience, maybe an empire, maybe something didn't go right, whatever scheduled ⁓ like, Drew Reiners: Yeah. Yeah. Rhett Parker: You can tell if people Karen and people that are involved, whether you're an ad team, admin, team, coaches, just take a step back sometimes and go, man, does this person care? Because, and whether you do or not, you'll get accused of not caring and that that's okay. ⁓ but ⁓ that's a lot negativity we've talked about, right? But ⁓ I told you you came on here, People are just, don't understand the value being provided because if it was easy, everybody would do this. And man, I, the years, how many times has somebody that exactly that you, I see the smile coming that, that, oh, I'll just run my own. Okay. Go run your own. And then it's like, Oh, I had an 18 tournament. Man, I was at the field the whole day. I had to do field work. we raised. And I'm going to, I'm going to keep the price low so that teams want to do this. Oh man, we raised 1200 bucks and it's like, you don't say how much work was that? Oh, it was a lot. Are you going to do it again? No, I mean, and you're just like, huh, interesting. Right? Drew Reiners: Yeah, I mean, if I had a nickel for every time I talk to a guy or a coach or someone that said, we'll just run a tournament ourselves. My response to that is, let me know how I can support you because more opportunities, in my mind, more opportunities are better. You want to run an event down the gorge, ⁓ let me know how we can help you. We're happy to help. We're in a state right now in the youth baseball world where there's There's so many teams and ⁓ for it's like, let's get everybody playing. ⁓ And sometimes might mean that we're pushing teams to someone else's event because it makes more sense for them and that team and that family, that's totally fine. Yeah, it's, I think it's definitely something where everybody's kind like, I mean, I can do it myself. ⁓ I be able to go run a club team by myself. I would struggle with that because I don't know the nuances of. Rhett Parker: So many teams. ⁓ okay. Drew Reiners: of dealing with the uniform orders, the bats, the training. This is just what we're good at and what we know how to do. Event specialists is what I like to call my guys. We focus on how to run a quality event and at the end of the day, the focus is on trying to focus. We want to be known as the company that focuses on providing a quality event and it's not all about, we make a lot of decisions at WCP. Rhett Parker: Sorry. Ooh, there you go. Yeah. Drew Reiners: that aren't based on how much money we're going to make at end of the day. We run several events, even here in our own backyard, that don't make sense financially if you looked at a budget. If a business guy looked at it and said, whoa, why do you run that? Why do you get these fields that are $175 an hour? Why are you getting that field? Because playability in April is more important than profitability. Because I want the team to play, and I want them to come back. And we may make less Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right, right, Drew Reiners: early on because we get expensive turf fields but at the end of the day if someone leaves our tournament being happy and excited about playing with us then they'll play with us in Bend and maybe they'll play with us in Lincoln, they'll travel with us, they'll come to Vegas, maybe they'll come to Arizona. Some of those events that do have a little bit more profitability from a business standpoint because they're bigger, badder events and there are some hotel revenues involved in that too so it helps. Rhett Parker: And there's a lot of different types of tournaments within each sport, right? And you're more of a destination tournament than a local tournament business that's running every weekend, which is fine. know, and Drew will be the first to tell parents here because, I was actually ⁓ filming another episode with somebody else this morning ⁓ and... Drew Reiners: it. ⁓ Rhett Parker: my kids are going to a soccer tournament, the 12th, and it says showcase on it. And I'm just like... it but but but I was picking up the kids are dropping the kids off from practice the other day. I can't remember which one I got, you don't mean I'm like an Uber driver. ⁓ the parents are like, ⁓ man, I wonder who's gonna be watching them. And I'm like, and I know nothing about soccer, other than to say, man, if you're a college soccer coach and you are at my 12 year old's game in three weeks in Davis, California, I will be shocked. And I'll go out of my way to be like, what's, what are we doing here? Are you a volunteer coach? this is how you like make it like, what I mean? I'm going to college showcase. Is it just really good teams playing really good teams from different areas? Okay. Well, is that a showcase? Cause a showcase in my mind means scouts or colleges are going to be there. Right. Drew Reiners: I would think so, yeah. Rhett Parker: Watch out for the buzzwords. Watch out for the buzzwords. That's that's where I'm heading with this. So, ⁓ OK, let's get on the positive side. That's it. It's it's it's Yes, and you were fortunate enough to play in college for a few years and you've also coached plenty and you're continuing to coach and now you're dealing with, your kids being older and I don't want to talk about that because how sentimental I'm going to get. Drew Reiners: Yeah, lot of positives, a lot more positives than negatives, man. They're really... Rhett Parker: ⁓ we the video. I watched the video of you and made me tear up catch with your son ⁓ as a high school coach for the last time, which is amazing. But people don't necessarily get to see that side of you or other tournament directors either, but you've always said something to me. The one thing that brings you the most joy, even when you're stressing in this field and this umpire and this game and ⁓ this protest and all these things a kid's Smile. Drew Reiners: Yeah, always, man. I love it. It's the one thing that like reminds me, takes me back to the 20 years ago, the why, like why did we, why did we get into this business? I think a lot of it stems from opportunities that obviously we didn't have 20 years ago in the world of sport. Come in Western Colorado guy was, hey, you played your 16 little league games a year and that was it. what I mean? We didn't play tournament baseball in Grand Junction, Colorado. Now they got teams everywhere. It's awesome. But nothing makes me happier than seeing a kid walk through the gate. This last week we were down in Arizona. And of course, there's going to be a team that goes on with four. But having those kids come by the table and thank us and tell us they appreciated the experience and those kids, even watching their high school age kids, like watching them walk out still confident that they got baseball played and it was in a ⁓ sunshine and beautiful fields. It makes you feel good like man. I'm glad you had a good time because it's not all about the wins and the losses at the end of the day. It's not about taking home at the $6.95 ring at the end of the day for everything. It's about it's about the experience. It's about the journey and seeing the parents just so appreciative to it makes us feel really good. We left. We left at 30 team turn up tournament over the weekend. Joe and I did and just felt. like it was such a win because we felt like everybody ⁓ happy. It was like, man, ⁓ why we do this. ⁓ weekends we don't feel that way. There's weekends when I get home and I feel just battered from ⁓ verbal abuse I probably took throughout the weekend. ⁓ often than not, it's kids that watching them. ⁓ Rhett Parker: So, I... Yeah. Mm-hmm. Peace. ⁓ Drew Reiners: Just be excited to keep playing baseball. I love seeing players come back year to year to year, even if it's on a different team here or there. It's like, I remember your name and it's, now I've been doing it long enough to where I can see some of these kids that are starting to get drafted and they're playing pro ball. And it's like, I don't remember when that kid played when he was 10 in our time, tournaments. It's like, that's kind of cool. Yeah, that's fun stuff. Rhett Parker: Right. That's pretty cool. And, and I think the, the, the, the hard part is, ⁓ is don't understand sometimes you're just in the customer service industry as much as anything else. It just happens to be in sports and you're able to try to help young kids. And I think that's really important, and, and I really hope this episode resonates with some people because I feel like this is never talked about. and people just have assumptions that they have no clue what they're talking about. I've gone through it. ⁓ and like I said, for me, ⁓ and takeaway that I want to give, from this episode is ⁓ look in the and say, Hey, man, like, does this person care? Do I think they care? But give us your takeaway. I think this episode is really parents and coaches is probably not as much players. Drew Reiners: Yeah. Rhett Parker: What do you want people to take away from this episode and just understand from a tournament director that's done it for 20 years, ⁓ it's hard question to ask. I'm gonna give you as much leeway or rope, one of the two, ⁓ on side you wanna go on, ⁓ to us some insight, Drew Reiners: had a kid play in my tournaments and other people's tournaments, watch kids every weekend. So I got the parent perspective. ⁓ I the biggest thing that I would love to see parents really focus more on is less about, their child's game changer stats, ⁓ their ⁓ wins, baseball, along with every sport, like the kids are learning so much about how to be good people someday, how to interact with people, how to be a good employee. Tell my high school kids, my mission is not necessarily to just get all you guys to the college level, which I would love to try to help you do that. I want you to be a good husband someday. want you to be a good employee. I want you to be a good father, so enjoy the journey. Don't don't hammer your kid in the car ride home because he had a hard day at the yard. what I mean? It's a game of failure and I think as a parent, there's a certain level of pride you take in your son or daughter being having to be successful every time they go to the plate or every time they get a ball hit their way or every time they're on the mound pitching. your kid is not gonna be any more or less your kid on the car ride home because he walked eight guys in a row in the mound today in a 12 year baseball game. Nurture that relationship because I've seen. A lot of kids, there's been kids that have come up to me and apologized for their parents behavior. And that makes me sad. That's like the sad side. Parents, these kids, they need you. They need you to just support them no matter how well they do at a baseball tournament. what I mean? At the end of the day, these are about experiences. I just talked to Camden last night about ⁓ a He came and played in my tournament when he was 10 in Arizona. ⁓ And said, what do you, ⁓ he's 19 now, What do you remember about Arizona? He's like, oh, I remember getting autographs from angels players. And then I remember, know, we went to that one hockey game, we went to a coyotes game as a team. And I'm like, what about the games? Do you remember that one game? I remember. Do you remember that game? You walked like six guys in a row. I remember that. Why do I remember that? what I mean? That's real though. Because I'm a former baseball player. Rhett Parker: Yeah, for sure. Right. Drew Reiners: I wore that and I still in my mind, tucked back in the corner, I still wear that. He's like, yeah, don't really remember much about any of the games. I think the big league dreams was cool because they played at Fenway Park or something, but these kids aren't going to remember their stats, So that's it, man. That's it. Rhett Parker: for you cam good for you man ⁓ I yeah get it yep yeah and I would I want to add one thing to treat treat people with respect treat treat people with respect whether you think they're completely wrong or not but man I'll tell you what those temperatures just get turned up dude they get turned up ⁓ in ⁓ the competitiveness and a lot of time it's ⁓ it. think that's the way that it has to be and people that played at high levels of sport are always looking at each other like what the heck is going on? and the rare time those guys are not great, but man, most of the time do the player like dude, I we understand why we're here ⁓ and we want a great and ⁓ I think that's super important and I'm going to encourage people. don't think I've done this yet. And maybe our producer will tell me if we have, I want people to comment on this one with their thoughts about what we just talked about because there, and, and, and could be a question, could be anything. And I, I, I am more than happy to answer. And I know you're in the same boat. We're an open book, whether it's me, I don't do it anymore, but you. not everyone's going to be like that because there's a lot of corporations getting involved in youth sports and tournaments and stuff. like it, there's a reason things ⁓ are the way they are. There's a reason we do things, you might not always agree with it, but like there is a plan for ⁓ a lot of in this industry. It's not everybody. And that's the unfortunate part. we didn't even really get to talk about the, the, the rabbit hole of pitch counts and people being competitive. Drew Reiners: Yeah. Rhett Parker: you know, and maybe we'll save that for a different time because I think, one of my goals ⁓ is know a lot of tournament people just like you do. And I think this has encouraged me to maybe get a round table podcast episode because I know there's people and we both know different types of people that don't have the same opinions as you or me. And ⁓ me you don't even have the same opinions on certain rules and ⁓ bats different things like we don't and that's okay. But man, it's really encouraged me to do that because I really want people to open their eyes as to why things happen in youth sports tournaments. And it's not all black and white. It's gray, just like everything else. And just again, we are trying to survive youth sports, whether you're doing what I'm doing or you're a youth tournament director, you're still surviving, even though it's your job. You're in survival mode. So, man, I really appreciate you coming on and Drew Reiners: Yeah. Yep. Rhett Parker: and given us some insight into different things. And I think I'm going to take this kernel of an idea and potentially run with it down the road. Yeah, I just really appreciate you and our relationship and all your efforts in the U-sports world. Drew Reiners: I think you're on the right track. I can't, I won't speak for everybody else, but getting an opportunity to get in front of a bunch of different minds would really, I would enjoy that a lot. Even if they're minds that critique and have negative things to say about, us tournament guys, I take that, ⁓ with and. ⁓ Rhett Parker: Hmm? Drew Reiners: It makes me want to make adjustments where we can control adjustments if there's enough issues. And it would be really special if we could get a bunch of tournament guys on with a bunch of coaches and parents and we all hear each other out. And there's been times where a lot of different tournament entities have aligned for rules and how they handle stuff. And think there's an avenue for that in our world. But I think I'm probably one of the very few that Rhett Parker: coaches. Mm-hmm. I agree. Drew Reiners: are actually open-minded to playing nice in the sandbox with one another. But I'll continue to try and I support your idea. ⁓ Rhett Parker: keep that in terms of, I'll keep that to myself. But I do think that you see a path because I think where baseball's at, we need people to work together and get a little bit more uniform in our thinking about bats and pitch counts and ages. I'm just, because the more competitive we make things and the more great, experiences and fun, the more baseball will survive and thrive and grow. Drew Reiners: Ha ha ha. Rhett Parker: And I think it's very fractured. And, I think it's one of the reasons ⁓ I'm this is, to try open people's minds and eyes to things that are going on. And your insight is just, it's invaluable. 20 years, I mean, and you're not really part of the big corporation stuff. I mean, you have been, but like you're a little bit more mom and pop organic. So, ⁓ but listen, I appreciate you coming on, man. And this has been great and I even learned a couple of things. ⁓ I don't want your ego to grow too much, ⁓ now it's been very good. And ⁓ like I said, I'm trying to survive eSports along with everybody else. Appreciate you. Drew Reiners: I appreciate you guys having me on and I'm more than happy to Chat anytime buddy. Rhett Parker: 100 % you too man