David Durand: Expectations can Steal The Joy of Youth Sports

Rhett Parker: Hi, and welcome to another episode of Surviving Youth Sports. And today we have David Durand, who, you know, based on what I know, is very into the coaching side, both on the physical side and the mental side. Welcome to the show, David. David Durand: Yeah, thanks for having me, Red. Looking forward to talking. Rhett Parker: Absolutely. And God, there's just there's so I mean I as I go through this process, there's so much information out there. And all we're trying to do for parents and players and coaches is put that information out, and you gotta make your own decision because things that you say might work for these 20 people and they might not work for these 10. And so how do you, as we go into this? As a as as a mental coach and and I know you've done training, you know, how how do you sort of, you know, go through that process of of guiding people, you know, because there's nothing's a hundred percent, right? So how do how do you David Durand: Right. Rhett Parker: go through that, you know, in in your world? David Durand: Absolutely. I think Keeping the main thing, the main thing is really important. I know that's what you know this podcast is about too, and navigating youth sports in particular, the parent side, the coaching side, keeping the main thing, which is the development of the athlete, the development of not just their skills, but any sport has has three dimensions. It's the physical, it's the psychological or you know, mental, people say, and then the skill aspect, which is like the fundamental. And so when I look at it, I want to have conversations with parents, with coaches. I want them to see the whole person, the whole athlete, and help them put it all together. It's so easy to get caught up in the statistics and the metrics and the scouting and exposure and rankings and all these things. But come back to at the core of it, why are these games exist? Why do sports exist? It's for the development of human beings, for the development of these youth athletes, so that way they can grow skills, not just the fundamental skills, but the mental skills and the physical skills, so that way they can stand up on their own two feet in life and and be independent and autonomous and solve problems and make decisions and lead and have careers. So I really always come back to sports are just a fantastic place of formation for humans. And that's why Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. David Durand: we love games, that's why we go to games, that's why we play games. It's because it really forms us in those three ways, the this fundamental skill aspect, the physical aspect, and the psychological aspect. And so keeping that the main thing and the development long term is I think the the focus and what I try and ground everything in. Rhett Parker: it's not the focus. I mean, it David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: like you know what I mean? Like it's it's not. Like that i if it was David Durand: Mm-hmm. Rhett Parker: I mean if it were we're we're not we're not having this conversation. Like like we're not. And and I think David Durand: Right. Right. Rhett Parker: And I'm not saying that parents shouldn't be excited about a ranking or making an all-tournament David Durand: Sure. Rhett Parker: team. I think that's amazing. We we should be supporting our kids. But God, that word development, let's just go back. That can mean so many different things to so many different David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: people. And at nine, the development looks like this. And at 12, it looks like this. And at 16, it looks like this. And at 20, it looks like this. And I got guys that are playing at the highest level of sports, they're still developing. And they're they're David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: they're the best players in the world. So man, so let's go to let's just go to the youth side. Youth, I'm gonna say not before high school. In your in your eyes, what does development mean? David Durand: That's a great question. Development I I I mentioned human beings, right? And that sounds like abstract, like I'm, you know, not just using the word athlete, I'm not just using I'm saying humans. It it needs to be broad, right? Human development. Because when we say, okay, you're making decisions, are we making decisions based on this U 12 baseball player what's best for them in this tournament? Are we making decisions what's best for them in their human development across time? Those are two very different things because a parent can say or a coach can say, let's pitch them again, right? That's what's best for this tournament, that'll get us the When okay, well that's where you're making decisions, right? Which is the reality. Rhett Parker: Right. David Durand: Let's zoom out a little bit. Okay, well, let's let's even look a week out. What's best for him this next week? What's that elbow, right, gonna feel like? What's it gonna be like? Is he gonna be going to PT this next week? Does he have a doctor's appointment? Like all those things. And so let's look at human development and make decisions from there because we never stop developing. We're always facing life. We're always facing reality where you know we're having some friction, we have adversity, we have challenges, we have demands on us, right? This is this is life we're talking about. So let's let's form them and develop them for life. And so looking at development then, back to your question before high school. I think development, just going kind of with those three aspects, the fundamental aspect, do they have the fundamentals in their sport? Stop with the whole early kind of specialization. Let's focus on, you know, all these higher level skills that we see the college and the pros doing. A lot of those are just micro skills, right? You take any game, like basketball would be a great example. Okay, three-point shooting, right? You're seeing all of this, and it's like if you're 11 or 12 and you can't shoot from 10 feet, 12 feet away with proper form. Why are we worried about that? Right? So let's look at the fundamental. That's what development means. Fundamentally, do you have a strong foundation with the fundamentals that you can build upon? Because just like a house, you're trying to like fix the roof when you don't even have a foundation and it's cracking. And so if you're gonna do that, you're you're just not gonna you're not gonna get very far. So fundamentally, and then the mental side, if they're in middle school, then let's start talking about things like confidence and what confidence actually means. Let's start helping them focus. Their attention and their mind a little bit and settle their nerves. If they're 12, 13, they're probably really starting to have nerves before games, maybe even freaking out a lot, right? If the stage is a little bit bigger. So let's talk about nervousness and kind of this, you know, mind-body connection and develop some skills to help them regulate, right? That would be the psychological aspect. And then the physical aspect, you know, there's a great term with development on the physical side called physical literacy. So many kids nowadays, because they're not playing outside, they're not having these normal childhoods. They're not going out and scraping knees and you know they're all on e-bikes now instead of regular bikes. It's like there's Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. David Durand: not much physical literacy, which means they don't they're not really literate in how to move their bodies. They can't really squat or hip hinge or like run well with decent form. And so why are we getting caught up on all these extraneous things or like seeing what the college and the professionals are doing and and and mentioning the the term D1 a million times a day if we can't even move, if we can't even think properly, if if we don't even have the fundamentals of the game, and so I know I'm in a little bit of a ran or soapbox there, but Rhett Parker: Yeah, no, it's fine. David Durand: that's how I think about development. Like let's look in those three buckets and let's build the fundamental skills in each of those buckets before we're trying to, you know, go to the moon. Rhett Parker: And and we we have to be careful. They're talking about 12U baseball, because you know, I mean, me, me and and my good friend Bobby Minor, you know, were saying 12U baseball doesn't matter. And boy, I'll tell you what, it it it it and and it people just went off the rails both on both sides, right? David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: It does matter, but not David Durand: Mm-hmm. Rhett Parker: in the way a lot of you people think. Like it David Durand: Yes. Rhett Parker: absolutely matters, but it doesn't though. Because it doesn't, David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: it doesn't mean anything for your development to become a college or high school or professional athlete. It doesn't mean anything. I I it you like it it doesn't. Other than building a passion for the game, building those baseline fundamentals, which by the way can be acquired when you're 14 too, just throwing that out there. and and so yeah, just we gotta be careful, David. We gotta be careful. David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: There's I I mean the The troll, there's a lot of people that like to troll, and there's a lot of people like to support, right? And and it's and I think what you're saying though is is true. Development can mean something different for everyone. There are people that would develop better if they specialize a little bit earlier. There's other people that shouldn't specialize earlier. Like it so it's not one path. And and this is where just people David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: get. Just so sideways of like, you're telling me I'm doing it wrong. No. We're telling you that, like, generally speaking, here's our thoughts, you know, but David Durand: Mm-hmm. Rhett Parker: it's not a hundred out of a hundred. Like, I I know David Durand: Right. Rhett Parker: some kids that are seventh grade that like aren't like the motor skills are not super high. They're gonna have to really rep it out, man. Just to even David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: like be a good high school player and maybe play, you know, at a lower level of college. David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: And that's okay. If that's what you want to do, man, I I love it. I'm all for it. But we're also not talking about a nine year old either. We're we're talking David Durand: Right. Rhett Parker: about a 13, 14, 15. Like, there's a difference. There's a difference. David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: so how so how'd you get into this? You know, I I I think we we lose the fact of like what was was there a moment, you know, just was it a buildup? How how how did you start getting into this world? David Durand: Yeah. It's funny, right? bit ironic. So I was a kid who specialized pretty early, which is why I work in sports psychology as a mental performance consultant now. And so I didn't Rhett Parker: Now that's funny. That's funny. David Durand: have you know, I had a great childhood. In a sense I didn't have too normal of a childhood because I I loved basketball and you know, f the age of, you know, six, seven, eight, I'm practicing hours each day. At the ages of nine I'm, you know, filming instructional DVDs on my dad's camcorder in the driveway, you know, twelve, thirteen I mean I'm spending an exorbitant time training and like I'm doing plymetrics at 11 to write my own programs, like that kind of stuff, right? Rhett Parker: Did you burn out? I mean David Durand: Yeah, so so long story short short. Rhett Parker: Like that seems like a lot to me. I'm like just David Durand: It was a lot. It was a lot. Long story short. you know, the hallmarks of burnout are on the mental emotional side. And I would say, yeah, I did. I had med a lot of medical issues, middle school going into high school, had a lot of inflammation in my body, kind of as good slaughter, knee stuff, some overuse stuff. Rhett Parker: Overuse. Overuse. Huh? David Durand: because of the medical issues, I hit puberty way later. So like my growth curve, everything was just so push back, like junior in high school late. And so everything for me wasn't typically the normal normal path. And so I wasn't the you know coming back to the development What's best development? Was it best for me to spend that much time training? no, it was it wasn't. And that would that was a perspective that that I didn't have. And so for me, I always felt like it was the mental side because I trained so much, put so much pressure on myself, perfectionistic and everything, that I couldn't transfer into the games well. And I couldn't do the things that I knew my body could do, you know, sometimes, but I'm I mean, you know, all the time. And I felt like I kind of got My own way a lot of times was sports because I cared so much about it. It mattered. It was my identity. And that was always fascinating to me of like it's existing in my mind. Like if I can just get my mind straightened out, I would be able to have more fun and play better. Took space from sports after high school and stuff, and then kind of later came back to it studying psychology and you know doing some coaching and training and stuff, and ended up starting on the clinical side of psychology and then moving into sports and performance psychology. And now it's cool because I'm working with. people that kind of resemble myself in the past a little bit and almost in a sense trying to help kind of right some wrongs and kind of you know my own way by working with these athletes that are putting a lot of pressure on themselves and take it so seriously. So that's kind of how I you know stumbled into this field a little bit, but it all was was based kind of in my own journey and questions I had. Rhett Parker: Yeah, and and I I this is just my perspective. It it's I soccer's big, baseball's big in in our house. It it's okay to get some touches in every day if that's what you want to do. It's fine. If you wanna get better, you like go put in extra work. Totally fine. But it's okay to not do it too. A like our oldest son right now is is starting to blossom a little bit in in soccer and I I I I I didn't I didn't get my touches in. I didn't do the dude. You're 12. I love David Durand: Mm-hmm. Rhett Parker: your passion. I think that's amazing. It's gonna be okay, dude. It's gonna be fine. Like, you know, and and like now school's starting again, and now you're in seventh grade, your body's going through changes, and you're like, All right, man, I can see it like a little bit. Like we had to sit him down the other night be like, dude, it's okay. You're not like we're 12. And and it's hard. Like you just sort of see David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: it and and and you shed it because that's what we're trying to portray. Like, you know, it's not your identity, buddy. I don't David Durand: Mm-hmm. Rhett Parker: care if you play, if you love playing, like I don't care if like keep playing. I don't care if you do this, and we don't care if you do this. Man, it's really hard though. Like it it's really hard when someone wants something, and that's what our job as parents is to is to rein that in when it's too much. And if it's really what they want to do, it's okay to be like, hey man, honestly, like this is what I see. Give them a nudge. David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: Not tell to do it. That's my opinion. David Durand: Right. Rhett Parker: Give a nudge. And if they really want to, they'll do it. And if they don't, they won't. Right? Like, is that David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: where are you seeing man, I just there's so many different spectrums of of parents and and players and you know What are you seeing as one of the harder like where are we missing a lot right now as as parents for different types of players like what I just sort of described? David Durand: It was a beautiful example you gave and I think that That window, 11 to 13, usually, right? You're kind of shifting from childhood into adolescence. And that's when the the brain changes, right? The mind changes so much, awareness changes, the body, there's so much change. And the shift we see from kind of the childlike exploration with sports and games, from like, I want to do this, the passion starts shifting a little bit more into fear and insecurity. They become a lot more self-conscious, they become a lot more socially conscious, a lot more embarrassed, a lot more insecure. And these are hallmarks of you know getting into adolescence. And so a lot of my practice and what I work on with athletes and parents is talking about perfectionism. And kind of your example showed it too. And I used to experience this as an athlete, which is why I think I'm partly good at helping with it, is that there's a shift between, I want to do this, or you know, a natural kind of gravity towards something. And then I feel like I have to do this in order to be somebody. I feel like I have to do this to get attention. I feel like I have to do this to not fall behind. Now, when you hear the have to. to's, I have to, I need to, I must, I should, I'm supposed to. Those are demands and a lot of times they're unhealthy beliefs that kids and adolescents foster about themselves because you can even take one of those, right? Like I have to train today. Or why do you have to train today? I have to train today so I don't fall behind or so I don't lose my spot or I have to train today so like people think I'm good or coach you know keeps playing me. Well that's all coming from a place of fear and insecurity of of losing something. And that that fuel It it can help you in the short term. it can you know improve performance and it has some benefits, but it's not sustainable, right? It's gonna become more, you know, you're gonna become more susceptible to burnout, and it's not gonna be as enjoyable, and you're not gonna get as far. And so I always want to just stay rooted in desires, knowing like, hey, fears are gonna happen, but let's really ground ourselves in the desires. Like, yes, exactly what you said. What do you want to do? And help them see, yeah, if they can feel I didn't get my touches today or I didn't, you know, practice today, you're good. They need that calming presence. Like you're good like you're secure like because the how their brain is working a lot of times perfectionism is if if i'm perfect or for me in the past it was if i train enough then i'm not gonna fail if i train enough then i'm gonna be prepared for everything and i'm it basically i'm so scared right i'm so scared of looking bad i'm so scared of failing that i'm gonna try and buffer myself from that i'm gonna protect myself through training and it just becomes this huge trap one you end up playing worse because you're You're so in your head and in your way. And two, failure is inevitable. So wouldn't it just be better to accept it and lean into it with some strength and courage? so yeah, that'll be a couple couple thoughts on that. Rhett Parker: I and I think and and we're telling the the twins, w we almost want you to do it, you know, more in the morning or do something in the morning. It's stretching, it's mobility, it's it's touches, it's it and it's not it's not really for those things, but it's to build a habit for David Durand: Mm-hmm. Rhett Parker: like when you go have a job, sports, not sport, whatever, it doesn't matter. You're building a habit, okay. I need to be healthy. I'm gonna go work out in the morning. Like, okay, I, you know, I mean, my wife is a physician. She gets her notes done, she goes for a run, comes back, gets ready to go to work, like makes lunches, whatever. But like, it's a habit. That's more important to to to me, and it's usually using sports as a vehicle or using stretching to help your body, whatever. I don't really care what it is. I mean, you could play your instrument in the morning. Doesn't matter to me. Like, you're building a habit David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: of successful people in in in just in in my experiences, have those habits. Like they they they they do. They have a plan. And but it's not, man, like if my wife doesn't get a run-in, yeah, she's probably not happy about it, but like it's not like, my god, I didn't I didn't David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: get my run in. So I wanna I wanna switch to something because I think this is interesting. And People talk about college, you know, and professional sports because kids have desires and and and our kids are no different. We started watching the Wrexham show the other day. The the Ryan Reynolds David Durand: yeah. Rhett Parker: the the soccer show because it actually David Durand: Mm-hmm. Rhett Parker: gives an insight, you know, to you know, sort of lower end professional sports, right? Because it's it's nowhere near the David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: the top level because we're on the first season. And then like some of the questions like from from the twins are like, what do you mean they don't make enough money? God, David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: he's hurt. my God, they cut 10 people after yeah, like, yes. David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: Like this is like you guys watch Otani and you watch LeBron and you watch all these people. Dude Those people are in a different, they're in a different stratosphere. David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: And that's what we are is highlighted, right? We don't see David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: people like myself that played the lowest level of professional sports you can play and get sent home and you're in the training room all the time and you you made $800 a month, like you know, twenty, twenty David Durand: Mm-hmm. Rhett Parker: years ago. Like, they don't see that. That's what most of it is. David Durand: Right. Right. Rhett Parker: Like it's okay to sh like it takes curtain back because it's not all it's not David Durand: Right. Rhett Parker: all fun. Right. And I think there's some misconception. Are you seeing that in your line of work? The the misconception is that, my God, N I L like, no, that's not that's a David Durand: Yeah. Right. Rhett Parker: small percentage of people. Within the small percentage David Durand: Yes. Rhett Parker: of people. David Durand: Hundred percent. And that's because that view of reality is so distorted. And I think we have in a a large way we have social media to thank for that, right? Because everything has become so globalized to where it used to be, I'm sure, when you were growing up, you compared yourself to the other kids at the park that you saw playing. Compared yourself Rhett Parker: Yeah. Yep. David Durand: to the kids in the neighborhood. When you play with them, you compared yourself maybe a little bit bigger. You travel a little bit for a tournament or this or that. It wasn't scrolling and comparing yourself to all these highlights or all these professionals or all these kids. it's like well then they get discouraged and demotivated. Well, this, you know, seventh grader can can dunk that I'm seeing on on YouTube and And all these things rather than there's so there's it's so healthy to become localized, to like really be grounded and be in a community and like have real relationships and people you admire in that community. Everything's become so you know the opposite now to where they're just exposed to so much. It's like they're trying to take in the whole world, but the whole world now is filtered and edited and misinformation and AI generated, and it's like, man, like that's what they're consuming, but that's what's forming their habits of mind. That's what's forming expectations. That's what's forming their beliefs, and that's what they're carrying into their experiences. and it skews everything. And so I do see that. There's a lot. I mean, the number one thing that we're battling with the youth, I think, is unrealistic expectations. and so they have these huge cycles of like high highs, instant gratification, and then these like low lows of just like dis disappointment, discouragement, demotivated. And it's really difficult because yeah, they see all these things and they think that's what they're chasing when in reality that's probably not even the cards for them. and it's totally it's totally different. And so a lot of that needs to be, you know, dispelled one way or another. Yeah, it's not. Yeah. Rhett Parker: Well it's not just it's not just the kids though, David. It's the parents too. Like I I you know, and and and I've I've said this a hundred times and I'll keep saying it. your genetics, definite how tall are you? Five nine. Okay. David Durand: Five nine on a good day. Rhett Parker: Five nine on a good day. How many five nine people or lower are in the NBA or in Europe or in like bat for basketball? David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: Like genetics plays a massive factor. I it it just does because I David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: will promise you if you were six nine, David, you're David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: a better basketball player. Like you are. Like that's just it is just the reality. If you had everything the same, you would have been better if you were taller. Like that it's a fact. David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: and I think we we in my in my experiences, we lose we're losing that perspective. Like you just I'll go back to the training thing. You you you can't train genetics. Like there's people and you probably seen been around just like I have, that can pick up a ball and do nothing. And they're better than you. David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: How you gonna compete with that? Well, y you're not trying to though, right? David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: You can't. You should David Durand: Yeah. Rhett Parker: be competing with yourself. What do you got for I mean, do David Durand: Yeah, it's so true. Rhett Parker: you w w I know you see it, dude? I mean, you are you is that something David Durand: Yeah. Yeah. Rhett Parker: that you tell like talk to people about a little bit of just like trying the the com comparison is the thief of joy. We we we understand all that, but like David Durand: Sure. Rhett Parker: your genetic makeup matters as much as anything we're talking about. David Durand: And I and I think that's that's what I'm trying to really communicate with being localized, being in your community and getting back in touch with reality because W when you're doing that and you're you're competing, right, say in basketball, right? Like there is a moment for me where I'm guarding this kid, right, growing up and and everything like everything just the veil was torn, right? I'm guarding in the way he moved, it was like I'm training like six hours a day in the summers and Rhett Parker: Mm. David Durand: there's no way there's no universe that I'll be able to move like this guy. And it's not like, I never want to pick up a basketball again, but it freed me. In a in a Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. David Durand: sense it freed me in a sense of like I don't need to hold that because that's not that's Not even going to be a reality, nor could it. Like, I'm going to work hard, but my destination is going to be a lot different than his. And that's okay. But it comes back to okay, well, then if I'm just trying to be the best in this one little domain, right? Like the skill domain or the whatever, and I'm not having you know that human developmental perspective, it's so easy to get lost and so myopic on that of like, okay, well, then I'm just trying to train really hard to be the you know the most skilled player out there, but But you know, then you're losing perspective of this kind of bigger goal of what it's all for. All that training and everything was to form me as a person. I take those same habits into how I deal with everything. Like I was this little obsessive, compulsive kid that was training all the time. And no, I I wish I would have done it differently in a lot of ways. However, it did form a lot of habits, and I have a lot of those personality traits and the discipline that Rhett Parker: Bang. Yep. Yep. David Durand: I carry into my work and my family and being a dad and being a husband and all these things. And and honestly, I'm a lot better because of it. And so I think that's you know It's the vehicle. It's the vehicle, but we're getting we're getting caught up in thinking that yeah, so back to your you know back to your question, man, the the genetics. Like I'm with you. I think the earlier we can just get dispelled of that and let go of that, then you can act you're freed up to actually see what your destination could be. Rather than being so rigid and thinking it needs to look a certain way, it's not gonna look the way you think it's gonna look. So you might as well open up and you know be along for the ride. Rhett Parker: Absolutely, 100%. I love, I love hearing that because I think that's so important. So give us, could be player, parent, coach, give us your what is the best advice that you can give could be to all three. you know, as we as we begin to wrap this up, what is the best advice you have for people from your perspective, which is a very wide-ranging one? David Durand: Sure. Deal with your insecurities. Don't hide from your insecurities. Stop projecting them on other people. As humans, whether you're an 11-year-old baseball player, 12-year-old baseball player, or the parent of one or a coach, we're humans. We have human nature and we're insecure. And a lot of times those insecurities kind of scare us, and then we act differently because of it. Meaning, if you're a U-12 baseball player, maybe you're insecure that you know you won't get enough attention or people won't be attracted to you if you're not some great baseball player. So then that insecurity is going to be driving this whole baseball thing instead of you know something a little bit more pure and and fun. And enjoyable. If you're a parent, maybe you're getting caught up in the status of you know having a killed a kid that's you know on the map or really skilled or kind of the status signaling of all that stuff and kind of playing these parent social games, like a lot of times, or a coach, like maybe your team isn't doing so hot, and you feel like that's a poor reflection on you, and then you're getting judged because of it. Like it's so easy. We go through every day, and our insecurities kind of get poked at and get triggered. If we just kind of open up a little bit and understand, like, hey, we're all a little bit insecure about ourselves, and that's okay, that's part of being human. Let's Acknowledge that and understand that we're not judged by our our insecurities. We have some fears, but we also have a lot of desires. Like let's live a life where we're looking at this whole development thing and making the most of it, knowing, yeah, we're gonna be afraid that we're gonna fall on our face or mess up or embarrass ourselves or look bad. But at the end of the day, that's not really what matters. the way we embrace that and kind of lean into those insecurities, then we find a lot more strength. my number one thing that I try and my mission on earth and in what I'm doing in mental performance is Helping adolescents develop internal security. If they can develop some internal security, some internal strength, then what's inside of them is going to be stronger than what they face outside of them. And they will have what they need in those moments to be able to return to it. And I think that's going to be life, right? That's a mom that's you know pregnant and giving birth. That's a dad that has, you know, burdens at work. That's whatever. That's life. And so if we can develop humans that can access, you know, that inner strength and security and have that psychologically, then I think that's all we can ask. for so that would be my thing. Let's not hide from our insecurities. Let's let's face them, be honest about them, deal with them, and then you know live a little bit differently because of that. Rhett Parker: It's hard. It's and it's hard to do. It's not if it was easy, I I mean, it's like everything else, every everyone would do it. But I think that's really it's really a great piece of advice and and I I I struggle with it too. I mean it we all do. Like it's it's human nature, but David Durand: Yep. Rhett Parker: that's awesome, man. Well, how can we how can people find you? social media, website. I I think your perspective is very unique and I actually think it it helped a lot of people. David Durand: Sure, sure thing. I appreciate it. So speaking of development, my business is called Real Development. So RealDevelopment.org is my website. From there you can reach out to me and contact me. My emails there and and and business phone. So I would love to continue any conversations. I have a book for sports coaches and parents called Bet on It, Psychological Approach to Coaching Gen Z and Beyond. You can check that on Amazon or on the website. and then also Better Than Before, it's a little short book I have. for athletes that are going through an injury, help them on the psychological side so that way they're ready when they get back to competing also on Amazon and the website. So you can reach me through there and yeah, I would love to talk to anybody about, you know, some of these things or things we didn't get to talk about today. Rhett Parker: Yeah, absolutely. No. I I those are I mean, it's again, I and and we end podcast, right? You know, with a lot of the the our guests that come on. We could talk for two hours, three hours, five hours. I mean, there's just so much advice and experiences and journeys to go through. But no, I really I we tapped into some things and and I love doing this. I I said because it it it helps me. Like even just thinking about things from a different perspective, because I don't have it all figured out. You know, I'm I'm s it's why we call it surviving you sports, David. I don't think anyone does. And obviously, even though you're David Durand: Yeah. Yeah. No, we don't. Rhett Parker: writing books, you're still trying to figure things out to help people. It's not the journey doesn't stop for any of us. David Durand: All all the time. Nope. Rhett Parker: well, loved having you on, man. I really appreciate you know, your perspective and and your thoughts on on where we're at in this in this crazy youth sports world. so really appreciate having you on, man. David Durand: Yeah, thanks for having me. No, I love the conversation and yeah, it's interesting times, but I'm excited to keep navigating them with everybody. So yeah, thanks for having me. Rhett Parker: Awesome. Appreciate it.