Craig Bishop: What Parents Say They Want vs. What They Actually Chase

Rhett Parker: Hi, and welcome to another episode of surviving you sports today we have Craig Bishop, what I would refer to maybe as a chameleon of surviving you sports. Craig you have done. It's too much to even list. You know what you've done in sports both as a parent instructor facility owner coach, you know you name it man. Welcome to the show. Craig Bishop: Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Red. It's been a long journey and one that I'm really proud of for sure. I think that it is kind of amazing to me that in the circles that we both run in that we haven't really had a chance to meet prior to this. So I'm really excited Rhett Parker: Yeah. Craig Bishop: about the opportunity to spend some time with you guys and share some things that I've, through my experience with it, I've done made some really poor choices and certainly Rhett Parker: you Craig Bishop: made some good choices as you learn through it. So I appreciate you Rhett Parker: All right. Craig Bishop: having me. Rhett Parker: Well, and I think, you know, it's fine. We'll just talk about that. Like, is it a poor choice if you learn from it? I feel like even some things that we've done, like with my kids, I'm like, man, if I could do that, I would do it differently. But man, I learned this and, you know, they learned this and God, it ended up working out. Craig Bishop: Yeah, I think that in the long run, perhaps, you're either obviously, I didn't make up the phrase of either winning or learning. Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. Craig Bishop: But I've made some poor choices. I can certainly admit that. But I have grown from them. I'm a dramatically different coach. than I was prior to having kids. I listen to a lot of your shows and obviously you guys are right in the thick of it. I'm fortunate enough to be through that main wave of it. I've got two adult children and one that's gonna be a senior in high school next year. So we've experienced it all, but I'm a... I have learned from some of my mistakes and that makes me much better now and it's a better product for what we're doing. But I don't know that I would say any of them. Some of them were pretty bad. Rhett Parker: Hey, you know, I may not be perfect, but I'm self aware. And I think that's it's just an Craig Bishop: Okay, yeah. Rhett Parker: important thing, you know, especially in sports, you know, to be self aware. But well, let's talk about, you know, some of your background, you know, in the facility training, coaching camp world. What, what is that? like because especially in baseball, people from other sports don't understand that as much, especially, you know, we live in Washington state. You can't go outside for a lot of months. So talk to me about that world, some of your experiences, you know, from that. Craig Bishop: Well, it certainly has evolved. actually just a little bit of history. I started in the facility industry way back in the mid 90s. I was working for a gentleman named Dave Henderson, so Hendo in Bellevue, Washington. We had a facility there that was a coin operated. We had literally seven dirt cages with dirt mounds. I was doing lessons there next to a gentleman who was a former big leaguer named Dan Spilner, just a wonderful, wonderful coach. And so that was kind of my first iteration. of that at the time I was also coaching junior college baseball in Eastern Washington. So a lot of commuting, but as you know, when we're all in that 20 something, we're willing to do whatever we can for what we have a passion for. I learned quickly at that age though, because that business failed, right? It was a huge warehouse facility in the Bellevue area, which obviously you can appreciate the value of that real estate. But what I learned is really about, you know, earning per square foot, right? And the building was too big and really wasn't earning the money that was necessary to keep it alive. And so I think we lasted for two years. And then in 2000, that Dave decided to close the doors on that, which I certainly made made sense to me because I was learning a lot about the business at the time and it certainly was a little bit upside down. So I guess fast forward to the facility rental model in terms of teams coming in and renting space is really not. doesn't really cash flow as much as one would hope. And so the model of the membership model that is becoming more more prevalent definitely makes a lot more sense. And when I say membership model, I mean there's team training, there's facility space for practices, there's a lesson, there's an ancillary menu of lessons. And when I say ancillary, I mean small group training lessons, those types of things. But really, you can make it a year round business because of the year round access from the teams and therefore the members each paying a portion of their player fee to that. So I've learned more about that in the last five, six years and have learned some of the things around the country that I didn't think would work well and learned some of the things that locally did work very well. And in the greater Seattle area, Puget Sound area, I'm very fortunate because it's the right environment, right? Indoor baseball is necessary for six months. out of the year, softball as well, combined with the tech industry having the dynamic of income. Right? And so there's a lot of families that are willing and able to afford that product. And there's also, I would say, lot of facilities that maybe take advantage of that. Right? And it's grown to a level that maybe is larger than it should be. But when the day's over, if people are willing to spend the money, then obviously there's gonna be more and more businesses that pop up and try and, I guess, take that piece. Rhett Parker: Yeah, and you know, I think people sometimes look at that facility model or travel ball or whatever and there are people that are certainly fine with their kid being on the third or fourth team and just having it's more social than baseball. And I think some people look down on that or how could you spend this money? It's not necessarily about the baseball for everybody. There's a whole spectrum of people that sign their kids up. It could be age related. It could be friends related. It could be social related. It could be development and baseball related. And I think that gets lost sometimes man where it's like, Hey man, yeah, our 14 new teams not very good, but we don't really care. Like they're with their friends and they're playing because we've eliminated rec essentially like Craig Bishop: correct. Rhett Parker: especially 13 and above, I mean it's gone. Which Craig Bishop: Right. Rhett Parker: I don't love personally. I think having kids be active. So you got the facility and we understand a lot of the clientele and people that do that. Camps, rec, where's that at in your eyes? I you've been around forever. Where are we at with that? Craig Bishop: Yeah, I think that from a business perspective, the facility model, if it's relying on ancillary sales to cash flow, it's not going to play long term, Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. Right. Craig Bishop: right? Mainly because, but if it does have that center focus on the teams, like right now you can't. be on Facebook or Instagram for at least perhaps mine because of the algorithm for more than 30 seconds without seeing another camp or another clinic. And I think it's oversaturated because I think people are comfortable selling a camp product. without quite producing on that camp product. And I think that people just have to do their homework and kind of learn their way through that. I just really, if families can work or if families can communicate with other families in their community to find out as much information about whether it be a facility, whether it be a select program or a travel program, or whether it be a camp or clinic, any type of... asset in this industry, people just, they need to do their homework, right? Because I think a lot of people in our industry, whether it's tournaments, facilities, organizations, they're either working to produce the product that they say they will, or Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. Craig Bishop: they're trying to creatively come up with excuses as to why it didn't go the way they said. And that's pretty blunt, I understand, but when the day's over, it ends up weeding itself out, right? And so I often just, the reputation of a product really is probably the biggest driver. So my best sales force are past parents, right? Who are willing to advocate for what they've experienced in my programs or at my facilities. Rhett Parker: Yeah, it's not just baseball either. I mean, I could just it's every single sport. might have the facility stuff, for example, for soccer, there's no indoor facility, right? You're running the fields and people have their complexes, but it's the research and the desire to have that research. And again, some people might choose a facility because it's five minutes from their house. They don't really care about what's in the facility. It's the convenience of it. The spectrum is massive for why people decide to go and choose what they want to choose, you know, and it is interesting because we've done this for a long time, right? And I've seen people, you know, kind of run bait and switches and different things like that in Seattle. And then all of a sudden I turned around a couple of years later and they're popped up and... Olympia, which is two hours away or they went to California and they're doing the same thing. And I'm like, dude, how's what? Like, how is this guy still around? Because what you just said, I don't think people do their homework. A lot of the times I really don't. And I also believe that half the people don't care about what the other half care about. I sort of said that in a couple of different ways. I think certain people care about. you exposure and, and some people care about development and some people care about convenience and some people care about the parent friend group, you know, I mean, it's, it's a whole spectrum of things, but you mentioned the camp business. What and so what are we talking about? Are we talking about camps for high school kids? Are we talking about middle school? Are we talking about eight year olds, seven year olds like? Craig Bishop: Yeah, I think we're talking primarily about the youth. So for me, definitional, 12U and under is youth. 13 to 13, 14 is what I would call intermediate. Kind of those tweener years between Little League and high school. And then obviously you have high school aged kids. I don't see a world where there's a camp. business at any age older than 13 really as those kids prepare for high Rhett Parker: I agree. Craig Bishop: school. They're much more driven by you know kind of their individual skill set and so the camp industry and to be honest with you I've done everything from college camps to community camps to indoor camps and they're great but they ultimately are just a really fun version of daycare for the kids. And that's OK, right? families, Rhett Parker: It's okay. Craig Bishop: way back in the day, I used to do the Husky camps in the mid-90s. And people would drop their kids off at 8.30 AM, go to work, and pick them up at 5. And we would just have them the whole day. And it made a lot of sense for a lot of those people that lived down near U-Dove and stuff. So I think the camps are a fun way for kids to learn to love and play. We all grew up playing with football. We all grew up playing. about that as kind of the older generations like man we got good at it because we played pickle or rundowns in the driveway every day right we played we played wiffle ball every day you know so we a lot of us say that which is true that's how we got good at our ball skills so kids don't necessarily do that as much anymore although i do see it i do see more kids and so the camps can provide maybe teaching them an environment where they can it's just fun play free play right And that's, think, what's going to help from that perspective. know, one thing I did want to mention as you brought up a thought is that one of the reasons that I've enjoyed listening to the podcast so much is because you are diving into different sports. And it's helping me understand just the similarities between that, because obviously my life is baseball and softball, right? 24-7, it's all we do. And so to listen to a basketball or swimming, wrestling, you know, football, all those, it's really kind of enjoyable to see the different consistencies, right? Because youth sports is youth sports. And we all go through those same emotions that we deal with when we're watching our kids play, which are very powerful. And that's why people are willing to spend money on it. Rhett Parker: And, and yeah, it there's little differences and little niches and niches or niches and whatever. In those within those sports, right, but the core of it, you just said it is actually it really is the same. See, you're in this and in your kids, all play me your son was a good player. Where does that come in for you as an individual? Mid 90s and then your kids and how did that sort of, you mentioned it earlier, change you? Craig Bishop: Yeah, it was dramatic. So I was still in college while I started coaching junior college. So I'm like 22 years old coaching junior college baseball. So I was fortunate enough to have just a wonderful mentor through that. But my wife did not want to live in Eastern Washington. And so we moved back to Seattle. And so I started Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. Craig Bishop: coaching there. But prior to having kids, I was a dramatically different, like we said, self-awareness is just a huge key for everybody, whether it's players, Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. Craig Bishop: parents, umpires, directors. I mean, it's just that ability to have a self-awareness. And so I did not have much self-awareness. as a young coach. I was winning a lot because I had good information I learned from a lot of great people and I had great intent and so that translated well to winning. So I thought I was really good at this. I you know there was a time when I can look back and go yeah I got this all figured out which none of us ever do by the way. And then we started we started having kids. My son was born in 2000 and then my daughter was born in 2001. And so things were pretty much still the same, but once they got to be old enough to start working at the sport, baseball and softball, and I would run from coaching a high, high level select travel team with John Lester on it to a tee ball game. and it was, it Rhett Parker: You Craig Bishop: was just learning to flip the switch was hard. Rhett Parker: It's hard. is. I'm in it right now. It is like I watched a high school game and I've been watching, you know, seven year olds, eight year olds, nine to 12. I mean, it and there's a kid down the street is going to Oregon is a 2027. I mean, he said 93. It looked like a it might have been a what's that one movie, The Scout. It looked like it was 150. I'm Craig Bishop: Yeah. Rhett Parker: like, oh my God, he's throwing so hard as like, okay, he's 93. It is like, okay, your your eye, your IDAR is way off, buddy. Craig Bishop: Yeah, that's definitely a part of it, especially because I do coach a lot of softball now and so Rhett Parker: Yeah. Craig Bishop: with my daughter and so the field size is amazing. I mean, a kid hits a 300 foot fly ball in a high school game and I'm like, God, that ball is smashed. Rhett Parker: Yeah, right. Craig Bishop: So as my kids grew up, it was not easy to transition from high level high school, college, future professionals. Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. Craig Bishop: to Little League. It was, I remember the first year, the first year that I was a coach pitch team and I was an assistant because I had to come and go and the coach was, it was frustrating for me. I also was, keep in mind, I was at the time that I was having a lot of success on the field and so I felt pretty good about myself and the team was fine. It's literally, I didn't really care about wins and losses, but I did care about organization of practice and just what are we working on? What are the kids, not even from a fundamental perspective, but more from a organizational perspective. And we got to the end of that year and I had an interesting conversation and my wife, course, who's just, you know, for all of us, pretty much the smartest person in the room and where we're all at. And she says, well, you're not allowed to complain anymore unless you're providing a solution. And so that's what started me the next year. I was the head coach and because she's like, you know, if you're you can't complain unless you're going to solve it, you know, and so that's transitioned me into that. Ultimately. It transitioned me out of a singular high level professional college prep team that traveled and did, you know, kind of the West coast and some, some Florida travel. and transitioned me into kind of that little league coach, little league dad. And then, but it was wonderful because it allowed me to start kind of on the path of my current scenario, which is youth teams and growing teams and so on. So it's been a huge transition. Full circle moment for me was in 2000 and because I was coaching high school all the way to that till 2004. Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. Craig Bishop: Had one of the poor choices I was talking about earlier. Cause that job to be done. Certainly you know my my my issue, my fault and but circle back to 2018. My son is now a junior in high school, having a miserable experience comes home and says dad, I think I'm done. I don't want to play. And this was after us, you know, at 15, he determined he wanted to play in college. And so we were grinding. We were doing the work necessary, right? Because that was the one thing was like, you have to tell me it's what you want. Because if you leave it up to me, it's I'm to go all in. Right. Because that's all I know for all the other kids that we work with. And so but he did. But at that point, it was like it brought tears to my eyes. I'm like, holy cow, we've put a lot of time and energy you have, right? You've done the work, Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. Craig Bishop: son. And and but he just was so unhappy. So I was fortunate enough the community kind of rallied behind me. They went to the school and said, hey, you know, we'd like that. So I actually coached him his senior year at Englemore High School. Yeah, and it was. Rhett Parker: I remember that actually now. Craig Bishop: It was pretty amazing because we took a three and 17 team and won a King Co. a conference championship with kids that I had coached from nine you up. And so it was a Rhett Parker: It's awesome. Craig Bishop: really, it was a really fun moment for me, but I was a much better communicator, much better listener, much better. I had more empathy for kids and what they were going through. Um, had more empathy with communicating with parents. Whereas before, prior to me having kids, I was just certainly that classic coach. don't talk to me. I know what I'm doing. I have it all figured out. And so Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. Craig Bishop: that is a long-winded answer, but really, through the evolution of that full-time professional coach to having kids staying at that full-time professional coach, but having a much better awareness of what people are going through that are playing for you. Rhett Parker: Yeah. And it's, hard sometimes, man, especially, you know, like I said, coaching, coaching the nine, 10, 11, 12 with, with my own son's team, you have relationships with these people, man, and they live in your community and it's a very different experience to do that. And, now your journey is, is pretty remarkable, especially how long you've been doing this. and there's one thing I want to talk about. And this is, you know, this is, you know, controversial, right? What do parents really want? Status or development slash are we making our sons and daughters good people? But Craig Bishop: Right. Rhett Parker: I feel like we actually like most people, that's really wrong to say. A lot of people actually don't really care about that. They want the status of their kid being great. Craig Bishop: Correct, and I've even announced this to my families just because I tend to be, I try to be as upfront and transparent as possible when I'm dealing with my families. If you were to ask a room of 100 parents what's the most important thing, they would all raise their hands and say development. That's because that's what's socially acceptable. If I were to put pressure on them, to have the right answer, they would say winning. Winning is the most important thing to most youth parents. that's, until that's at the expense of their kids playing time. Okay, and so it's, there's an evolution to it, So, yeah. it's, Rhett Parker: Right. I'm for laughing. The look on your face right there was priceless. Priceless. Craig Bishop: so. It's not everybody, but there's no question that the majority of families, like I just, and I had a classic, the best tenu player in my program, wonderful kid, wonderful family, good family. The dad was an assistant coach on the team and still is an anagini, is that they're good family, but they're gonna go to another program to win more because they've been told, well, we win more because we develop better. you know, and so ultimately winning is most important thing to families unless it's about playing time, right? So then they go to that team and then that team brings in another player that perhaps means that their child doesn't play as much. And then it's like, yeah, actually, you know what? This really should be about development. you know, so, I just try to have people have again that self-awareness of really what they're in it for. So for me, I make sure people understand, if you want to win and determine to your family that that's the most important thing, that's your choice, right? That's okay. That's your choice. Just know that what comes with it is some animosity. What comes with it is sometimes some... some weekends where your child may not play or some weekend where the other kids don't get to play. And you're sitting there in the stands with families who are frustrated. So yeah, please do. Rhett Parker: I'm gonna interject one thing because I think this is this is the this is the the joke on that line of thinking because you just said 10 years old right the development is in the physical size and strength of whoever those kids are. Because I've watched it. I've watched majors. I've watched AAA. If you are small and have really good fundamentals, you're still not gonna be that good. You're not. Because that big kid who's 50 pounds, yes, Craig Bishop: compared to the other two in the sequel. Rhett Parker: he can have the worst fundamentals ever. And man, if he can throw the ball over the plate and he throws 15 miles an hour harder than everybody else, He's gonna dominate. So like when you say development and you said, you know, 10 years old, 11, Okay. Are they, are they, are they like physically mature in these guys and the facilities better? Because that's what it actually is. I'm not saying they don't have good skills either. So I'm not, it's not black and white, but the bigger kids, especially in baseball, they're the better ones. I'm sorry. It has nothing to do with the approach to the ball or the swing because It's really just based on physicality more than I mean, I've watched some horrendous swings with those hot bats and that ball fly. They Craig Bishop: Yes. Rhett Parker: got to tap it. They're bigger and stronger than everyone else. So when you say development, I just, kind of sit back and I, the joke, that's a joke. It's ridiculous. You can't even, it's not comparable, you know, and here's my passion for, for that line of thought. Like, Hey man, if you want to talk about development at 16. and you've had a team of 16 year olds that are playing 18U that are really good that you've had for five years, you can put a stamp on that and go, man, look how good we are at Craig Bishop: Right. Rhett Parker: 16 and we've had it for five years. I'm all in on it. I think that's great and that's something you could sell, but at 11, what are you talking about? Craig Bishop: Yeah, I think I try and make this statement to families a lot when we get started. Like between 11 and 14, your opponent is puberty. Right? I mean, you're going to walk into a ballpark. And if the other team has four kids that look like us at 13U, they're winning. And so our Rhett Parker: Yep. Craig Bishop: message is to try and, hey, we're playing against yesterday's version of ourselves. And so the goal ultimately is that development from a community-based perspective, meaning like I'm trying to have teams that are still community-based and that's really like the whole travel model, select model has taken over a little bit of the intermediate. model for 13s and 14s because A, you have families that are financially capable of paying for that training and they're trying to give their kids the best opportunity to get to high school, right? And that's one thing Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. Craig Bishop: that I find. And so from a positive perspective, I do have a lot of families like we just want our kid to be a good varsity player someday. And that makes me feel good because they do have that awareness of really what's going on around them. But when it comes to I want to win too. Right. Don't get Rhett Parker: Me too! Craig Bishop: me wrong. mean, we're all so competitive, which is great. But yeah. Rhett Parker: I'm in the same boat, Craig. I wanna win. Craig Bishop: Yeah. I love winning. I just don't have to to feel like we're providing value to the families. So if we can give them a consistent schedule, communicate, have a curriculum in our training, combined with quality leadership for the team, good communication. then I'm satisfied whether or not that kid is the 5'11", 160 pound 12 year old, or whether he's 4'9", and is just learning the game. It's definitely, it's a roller coaster for some of those families as they try and navigate their way through all of that. And I don't necessarily envy them. I was fortunate enough to have a program for my own kids to be in. And so... Rhett Parker: Right. And that's why I started doing what I'm doing. And we're full little league. Like, hey man, we do some things really well. I'll tell you what, we don't do well. We don't hold runners. So when Craig Bishop: Yeah. Rhett Parker: we play a really good triple A or fringy majors team or teams that can run, we're working on it. We're hoes though. Like it's double or triple, depending on who the runner is. And we're trying, but we're just. We're bouncing back and forth between the weekend of holding runners on and then no lead off. And so, yeah, we're gonna lose those games. Like we are. Craig Bishop: Yeah. Rhett Parker: But you know what? We can hit a little bit and we know where to go with the ball. And I've told the parents for four years, what, the holding runners and all that, it all works itself out. It really does. The reason why people are so hell bent on doing it at a young age is for one reason. to win. There is no other reason to really hammer the slide step at 1211 10 hammer pick plays and all these things. The only reason to do it is to win. It has nothing to do with development, you know, Craig Bishop: Right. Rhett Parker: and maybe feel and understanding and again, nine nine, we did none of it 10 we didn't do a lot 11 we started to work on it 12 we worked on a little bit more but like, it's not a priority for me. Craig Bishop: Right. Rhett Parker: I want guys to hit. I want guys to to know where to go with the ball. I want them to throw strikes. We've been working on change ups more than we've worked on, but like those things are all going to matter. And some of those guys, because we've done that, are going to be good in high school. And that's the goal is high school. Craig Bishop: That's the goal, right? That's that what you just said is what's been on my tip of my tongue for the last 30 seconds. Just the goal is that those kids become good at controlling the running game when they're 15. Right? And so if we can, because if you focus on that now to win a ball game, well, maybe your kids don't play catch well in another year. Maybe they're not working out. Maybe they're not good at two strike approach. Maybe they're not, you know, there's those are things that frankly we just have to prioritize, you know, in the youth game. And so For us, it's definitely the run game control at 11 and 12 is very difficult. do have, that is something we can do inside. And so we do spend some time on it inside, like, is that more important than, I don't know, is that more important than double play feeds? Is that more important than two strike approach? Is that more important than hitting velocity if you face that on a given day? I would say of course it's not, so. Rhett Parker: Yeah, and you know, again, we're average to below average, depending on who's throwing team, but they're all friends. Some of them will play in high school, some of them won't. But the thing is, and I said this to you before we got on, like, it's our last weekend coming up, and I'm sad, but I'm also like, all right, man, I'm kind of done. Craig Bishop: Yeah. Rhett Parker: Like I've gotten these guys to work because I never was going to coach my kids, right? But there was no one else to do it. Craig Bishop: Right. Rhett Parker: So like I've got them to the point where I'm like, okay, man, you guys are good. Like some guy, one guy needs to go play 14. You Craig Bishop: Mm-hmm. Rhett Parker: because he's way more physical than everyone. Okay. You know, a couple of guys need to like take a step down. A couple of guys need to go take a step up. A couple of guys are probably in the right spot. So I'm excited. And I know you've been through this. to see what's gonna happen with these kids that I've had since they were nine. It's gonna be so cool for me to be like, man, that's awesome. And to still, my son will be friends with a lot of these guys because we're from one town Craig Bishop: All Rhett Parker: and they go to school together. It's gonna be so cool, man. I am so excited for it. I gotta be honest with you as much as anything, like to see what happens, you know? Craig Bishop: Yeah. Rhett Parker: And some of them aren't gonna pick baseball. We play multiple sports. So. As we wrap this up, man, give these people, because man, you talk about surviving new sports. You've survived a lot pre-kids, post-kids, during kids. Now you're sort of almost post-kids again, because Craig Bishop: Yeah. Rhett Parker: you have mainly adults in one of high school. What do you got for people, Craig Bishop: You know, I... There's a lot more really, really great people out there than we give it credit for, right? We only see the stuff that can tend to be negative. I'm fortunate enough to work with a lot of amazing people and the relationship piece to it is what's the most satisfying and... the foundation of it for me and my family. We're at a point now where it's turned into the family business. My son's coaching a 13-year team. My daughter's coaching our 14-year softball team. My wife coaches our 12-year softball team. And yeah, Rhett Parker: That's awesome. Craig Bishop: and I get to kind of run the whole show with it. I'm like, like you said, we have a game every day, but it's just from a different perspective. And I don't have Rhett Parker: Mm-hmm. Craig Bishop: to be at everything, which kind of gives it makes it nice. But you know, it's If we can create a world where we have clear expectations. and good self-awareness, then you find that you get a lot of just really, really quality people, including parents that want their kids to just have a wonderful experience and get better at the game, be with their friends, all of the things that why we love it, right? If it was only bad, we wouldn't love it as much as we do, right? We're addicted to this. You know, we're addicted to the competition. We're addicted to the growth in our kids. We're addicted to the relationship we can create with the other parents. And that's Those are the beautiful things about it. I think for me, the biggest overall scenario for me is just that the evolution of coach to parent to administrator and just having that awareness of. put yourself where other people could be, right? And meet them from a place of understanding and empathy before you just get frustrated, right? Because I watch my kids play for other coaches and certainly have that level of frustration and I feel those feelings. And so, but we do whatever we can to try and vent to each other. And then we can be, you know, much more productive when it comes to our kids, right? So I'm comfortable venting to my wife about perhaps my daughter's experience on any given day. And then when she gets home, it's like, hey, sweetie, great job. Let's just keep working at it. So I just really, we focus sometimes on the negative aspect of it, but man, there's a lot of awesome people. And I wouldn't trade that in for anything. Rhett Parker: awesome. Yeah, no, I I'm in the exact same boat as you. And I have great experiences and relationships. We talk about it all the time on this. So well, thanks for coming on, man. I you assume stuff about people and their journeys and stuff. And I've learned quite a bit, you know, about your journey and, you know, what what you've done. So this this is terrific. And, you know, again, you've survived. You sports Craig Bishop: Yeah. Rhett Parker: Again, you talking about this is only to, it's not black and white, it's to give people information to do what they think is best for their kids and the kids to do what's best for themselves. So yeah, man, really appreciate you coming on. Craig Bishop: Yeah, absolutely. It's wonderful to spend time with you guys. I guess I'm just, you know, my ultimate goal is that people really have as much quality information to make decisions as possible. So thank you for doing the podcast. I think it's been a lot of fun to watch and I appreciate you guys inviting me on. Rhett Parker: Absolutely, man. Well, I appreciate it and we'll keep on surviving, Craig Bishop: Yeah, thank you.